Posts by Rattigan350

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Rattigan350

No, Easyprompt. Jehovah did not materialize a body to walk with Adam and Eve.

Gen 3:8 Christian Standard Bible "Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden."

Walking in the garden does not mean he had legs and was walking. It is a Hebrew idiom. While the primary meaning is 'walk', it also means to move, traverse, coming, going. So the voice of God was simply moving about through the garden.

Nor did he materialize a body to talk to Moses face to face

Nor did he with Abraham.

Those are word expressions.

John 1:18 says No man has seen God.

Exodus 33:20 "And God said, Thou shalt not be able to see my face; for no man shall see my face, and live."

That does not contradict Jacob in Genesis 32:30 Berean Standard Bible "So Jacob named the place Peniel, saying, “Indeed, I have seen God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”"

Because he did not actually see the face of God. We all know that was an angel. As the Aramaic Bible in Plain English says "And Yaquuv called the name of that country, Penuyel, because, “I saw an Angel face to face and my life is saved.”"

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Rattigan350

"NWT places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse."

No, it does not. Jesus' words does not define life and death. What happens next is not defined by Jesus' words. Why is this scripture such an issue? It is as ridiculous as The Rich man and Lazarus.

Gasp, Jesus said something and it changes all reality.

No, that is not how it works.

Reality is reality. Jesus being God's son does not change that. Sure, he did miracles, but this is not one of them. A dead man did not go to paradise.

Mark 15:37 KJV "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." What? Gave up the ghost. That's where that saying comes from. Even the ASV says that.

The RSV says "And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last."

At this point, Jesus died and he was dead. Jesus did not exist anywhere in the universe in any form, as a human or as a spirit. There was No Jesus.

Jesus did not go to paradise that day as he was dead. If he was not dead, what was the purpose of his resurrection?

So since Jesus was dead and not in paradise that guy was dead, when he died and also didn't go to paradise. That was Nisan 14. Jesus was resurrected Nisan 16 Sunday morning, which fulfilled the prophesy.

That guy was not resurrected. He was not in heaven. He was not baptized and he was not anointed with holy spirit. How could he be resurrected to heaven? And the first resurrection would not occur until Jesus became king. Jesus' resurrection was a one off.

Again, what are we talking about? More of Jesus' words that people just don't know what they mean, just as the generation??? The faithful slave???? Baptize in the name of father, son, holy spirit??? etc etc. While Jesus was the great teacher, at that moment, he was not teaching.

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Rattigan350

Same as Noah's. 40 days and 40 nights

39

Only baptised JWs will make it?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

i think it was a john cedars video or someone else’s where the point was brought up that only baptised jws will be saved?

then one talk about kids of baptised jws hope they will make it but even them don’t know.

most jws probably think that some good people who are not baptised may make it through, but this is not official teaching?.

Rattigan350

They like to use Zeph 2:3

"Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, Who observe his righteous decrees. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you will be concealed on the day of Jehovah’s anger."

It's the only place in the Bible where the word "probably" appears which makes it uncertain here. Seeking Jehovah, being meek, observing his decrees, seeking righteousness and meekness just isn't enough because that's just probably. So you are never on the safe side of the balance.

39

Only baptised JWs will make it?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

i think it was a john cedars video or someone else’s where the point was brought up that only baptised jws will be saved?

then one talk about kids of baptised jws hope they will make it but even them don’t know.

most jws probably think that some good people who are not baptised may make it through, but this is not official teaching?.

Rattigan350

This is all the carrot on the stick. My dad thinks that only baptized Witnesses or ones studying will be saved. People need to attend meetings and field service. He believes that because that is what he has been told over the years. He has been told that by the ones who are leading the program. This whole belief is just a motivator to make people attend the meetings and be active.

11

John 5:27 and Harners thesis

by Blotty in

conclusion to harners thesis: https://digilander.libero.it/domingo7/h7.jpg.

in 1973 a scholar by the name of philip b harner published an article in the journal of biblical literature that would be "revolutionary" he concluded that anarthorous predicate nouns preceeding the verb were primarily qualitative in nature.. in my view harner was correct, though he didn't agree with the "a god" rendering he also disliked the "god" rendering in john 1:1c providing an alternative which bibles like the net have paraphrased (to my knowledge).

one he didn't cover in his thesis was john 5:27 i would say this "authoratative" why?

Rattigan350

I agree with Harner because the "God" people are not flexible to the possible meanings. And they don't understand the whole Bible and think that words matter.

8

JWs & Guilt Trips

by skeeter1 in

the watchtower is a manipulator.

one of the tools they use is guilt, and they use it via the "guilt trip.

" just so we are clear, a guilt trip is:.

Rattigan350

In the 2023 RC, Symposium "With Patience Put Up with One Another in Love - Infirm or Elderly Family Members Speaker says "When we're a caregiver we might feel guilty. "

"As Jehovah's Witnesses we always want to do our best in Jehovah's service, but now because of all the extra work we are doing caring for family members, we're emotionally, mentally and physically spent and that doesn't leave us much time for the congregation or the ministry and that leads to feelings of guilt."

Doing our best in Jehovah's service is one thing, but when people feel guilty for missing meetings or ministry because they are helping others; they've learned too much guilt in their regular JW life.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Rattigan350

Why would he feel the need to redub the creation videos with his own narration?

That's just nuts.

57

JWs unrecognisable compared to my grandfathers time

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

my grandfather who has been dead for 37 years would not recognise the borganisation today.

he would turn in his grave if he knew the end didn’t come by 2023.. back in the 1970s he really believed in the 75 thing.

he was so disappointed and almost blamed everyone else why the end didn’t come.

Rattigan350

"(Acts 1:7) “It does not belong to you (the "anointed") to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction."

No, he was not referring to the anointed. The "you" was the ones he was speaking to.

I don't like it when people take something that Jesus or the apostles say in their present and apply to the people of today.

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Rattigan350

Blondie, I'm surprised that the Society hasn't figured out the creative days. The creative days in Gen 1 are 24 hours long. However the time covered in creation within those creative days was millions of years. Like a TV episode is an hour long, but the time covered within that episode can be years. (Unless it is the show 24)