it would be nice if this little nougat of information could be more widely known - especially by journalists.. the quoted figures for scientology are taken from tony ortega's 2011 article in the village voice, which quotes former scientology pr executive jeff hawkins as saying.... "i know that event attendance internationally was somewhere in the region of 25,000 to 35,000. the international 'bodies in the shop' (people actually in the orgs that week for service) was 16,000 to 18,000. ias was struggling to get 40,000 members.
based on this and a lot of other information i was privy to, i estimate the actual number of scientologists at a maximum of 40,000. that's on the high side.".
portugal is one of 33 countries with more than 40,000 active jehovah's witnesses - demonstrating the gulf in size between the two faiths.. the following list shows all countries with more than 40,000 jws according to their reported peak publishers for 2013.. .
In this last DC (2013) it was said by a GB helper that 40% of all the new Jehovah's Witnesses nowadays came to the "truth" by means of informal witnessing. So, my take is that this is the largest form of recruitment of new members, superior to born-ins and formal, door-to-door witnessing.
Eden
it would be nice if this little nougat of information could be more widely known - especially by journalists.. the quoted figures for scientology are taken from tony ortega's 2011 article in the village voice, which quotes former scientology pr executive jeff hawkins as saying.... "i know that event attendance internationally was somewhere in the region of 25,000 to 35,000. the international 'bodies in the shop' (people actually in the orgs that week for service) was 16,000 to 18,000. ias was struggling to get 40,000 members.
based on this and a lot of other information i was privy to, i estimate the actual number of scientologists at a maximum of 40,000. that's on the high side.".
portugal is one of 33 countries with more than 40,000 active jehovah's witnesses - demonstrating the gulf in size between the two faiths.. the following list shows all countries with more than 40,000 jws according to their reported peak publishers for 2013.. .
Jeffro
There is no scriptural basis for defining 'activity' as 'door-to-door preaching'.
My thoughts exactly. Besides, "witnessing" is also said to be made through conduct, commenting on the meetings, etc. So how does that count as "activity" ?
Eden
it would be nice if this little nougat of information could be more widely known - especially by journalists.. the quoted figures for scientology are taken from tony ortega's 2011 article in the village voice, which quotes former scientology pr executive jeff hawkins as saying.... "i know that event attendance internationally was somewhere in the region of 25,000 to 35,000. the international 'bodies in the shop' (people actually in the orgs that week for service) was 16,000 to 18,000. ias was struggling to get 40,000 members.
based on this and a lot of other information i was privy to, i estimate the actual number of scientologists at a maximum of 40,000. that's on the high side.".
portugal is one of 33 countries with more than 40,000 active jehovah's witnesses - demonstrating the gulf in size between the two faiths.. the following list shows all countries with more than 40,000 jws according to their reported peak publishers for 2013.. .
True, but how can a publisher who has not taken his baptismal vows be counted as a member ? That's my whole point.
Eden
i know that a lynch mob forms whenever there's a hint of anybody being a pedophile, but the truth is that not all are the slavering, predatorial animals that they are painted to be.
each circumstance has its' own specifics.
in defense of the wts, they do keep track of confirmed pedophiles now.
I can't comment on that, since I'm not currently serving as an elder. However, when balancing the interests of the abused child, versus the rights to repentance and privacy of the (former) abuser, clearly the interests of the child and/ victim should come first.
Eden
it would be nice if this little nougat of information could be more widely known - especially by journalists.. the quoted figures for scientology are taken from tony ortega's 2011 article in the village voice, which quotes former scientology pr executive jeff hawkins as saying.... "i know that event attendance internationally was somewhere in the region of 25,000 to 35,000. the international 'bodies in the shop' (people actually in the orgs that week for service) was 16,000 to 18,000. ias was struggling to get 40,000 members.
based on this and a lot of other information i was privy to, i estimate the actual number of scientologists at a maximum of 40,000. that's on the high side.".
portugal is one of 33 countries with more than 40,000 active jehovah's witnesses - demonstrating the gulf in size between the two faiths.. the following list shows all countries with more than 40,000 jws according to their reported peak publishers for 2013.. .
Jeffro,
I agree with you, but I'm referring to statistics. Why don't we ever get the clearly stated number of how many BAPTIZED and ACTIVE withesses thare are? The number of publishers is interesting, but it only obscures matters.
Eden
i've been reading coc and rf highlights that luke 21:28 says: "but as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up, because your deliverance is getting near.".
i'm thinking on how no one who saw the start of these things is alive from 1914. as a comparison point, does anyone know when the wt suggests the last days started in the first century?.
was it when jesus said the above?.
MP
Naturally, that the Gospels were written in a time where the gentiles had already been admitted to the Christian church and probably outnumbered already the Christians of Jewish origin. Besides, the Jews that got scattered throughout the empire used the greek language. For practical reasons, the gospels were produced in greek, given the target audience. Although Matthew seems to have been produced with a Jewish audience with ties to the homeland in mind.
As for the death of Judas, no one was factual eyewitness to the event. So, based on accounts given by the people who found his corpse, there are two possible explanations to his death. The plausible truth of the matter might be a combination of both. Matthew went with one explanation, Luke went with another.
As far as multiple names: Professionally, I'm known by my family name from my father's side; Among my family and friends, I'm known by my first name. Among former school mates, I'm known by one nickname I had in school. Some family members still call me after the nickname I had as a young child. All are on record in written form.
As far as Luke the 'historian', I was merely given a contrast with Edward Gibbon. You can't expect the level of accuracy and scholarship from Luke as you would expect from a modern historian. It's a much fairer comparison if you compare his chronicles with the ones of other more or less contemporary historians like Herodotus or Tucydides, who made mistakes, but still are considered credible.
Note: The Watchtower calls Luke an 'historian'. That's not an accurate term for him.
Eden
it would be nice if this little nougat of information could be more widely known - especially by journalists.. the quoted figures for scientology are taken from tony ortega's 2011 article in the village voice, which quotes former scientology pr executive jeff hawkins as saying.... "i know that event attendance internationally was somewhere in the region of 25,000 to 35,000. the international 'bodies in the shop' (people actually in the orgs that week for service) was 16,000 to 18,000. ias was struggling to get 40,000 members.
based on this and a lot of other information i was privy to, i estimate the actual number of scientologists at a maximum of 40,000. that's on the high side.".
portugal is one of 33 countries with more than 40,000 active jehovah's witnesses - demonstrating the gulf in size between the two faiths.. the following list shows all countries with more than 40,000 jws according to their reported peak publishers for 2013.. .
Then there is a distinction between what is a "publisher" and what is an "ordained minister", that is, a baptized, active Jehovah's Witness. Why do we never get that figure? I always wondered.
Eden
okay, so the other day someone posted something about the talk in 1918 givin by rutherford (also released in pamplet and the talk repeated numerous times through 1924) titled "the world has ended, millions now living will never die".
when looked up on the watchtower library, numerous times the talk is sometimes referred to as "millions now living will never die" and also "millions now living may never die".
my question is there some honest explanation as to why some times it would read "will" and other times read "may"?
And he changed the "may" to "will" because he was convinced that Armageddon would come in 1925 ...so it was getting closer.
Eden
i've been reading coc and rf highlights that luke 21:28 says: "but as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up, because your deliverance is getting near.".
i'm thinking on how no one who saw the start of these things is alive from 1914. as a comparison point, does anyone know when the wt suggests the last days started in the first century?.
was it when jesus said the above?.
MP, sone observations regarding a few of your comments.
1. Regarding Simon taking the greek name Peter.
Remember that it wasn't Simon that renamed himself as "Peter". It was Jesus that gave him that name, a word play that would fit his role as a foundation stone of the new christian church [Jesus himself being the 'cornerstone']; At the same time, even if Simon personally had issues with overcoming his encrusted Jewish attitude towards gentiles, later in life he had to correct his attitude, even several times. To be called by a greek name would be a reminder that he had to broaden his views.
2. Regarding the death of Judas.
Why is it so far fetched that Judas could have hunged himself from a tree, and later either the branch or the rope collapsed and he fell down to a cliff or a rocky ground below and his belly bursted with the impact, especially if he had been under the sun for a few days, decomposing rapidly, before being discovered? This would lead to two hearsay versions: One, that he has hung himself; another, that he had fallen and bursted his guts out. It's evident that both Luke and Matthews weren't eyewitnesses to the fact, and each one relied on third party accounts from people who retrieved the body of Judas. In fact, it's entirely plausible that there were no eyewitnesses of the death of Judas. Only those who found and retrieved his corpse deducted the way he died, which lead to two versions of the story.
3. Regarding the different names of Judas / Thaddaeus.
Why is it such a problem? I would be concerned if the Bible would give different names for his father. As for being known for two different names, well, I got two surnames and two family names. Plus, I have two nicknames, depending on family endearing nick or schoolmates nick they gave me. What's so difficult that Judas could be nicknamed Thaddaeus [large-hearted] by his close ones?
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Also, regarding Luke being a competent 'historian' or not, why are people judging Luke, a physician of the 1st century, so harshly, because he didn't follow the rules of modern historiographical techniques ? Are you even serious? Modern historiography was brought about by Eward Gibbon (1737-1794), an english scholar, with his landmark work The History of The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire (1778). Luke is no less accurate than Herodotus or Thucydides, historians of the classic antiquity.
Actually, I find the whole notion of Luke as an 'historian' to be a false issue. At best, he was impelled by the Holy Spirit to write the chronicles of Jesus' life and the early years of the Christian congregation. That's all there is to it. There was a gap that needed to be fulfilled. The Holy Spirit didn't whisper in his ears all the information, otherwise there wouldn't be the need for him to research for information from eyewitnesses. I believe that his gospel was actually the last one to be produced, probably at the same time, and independently from the gospel of John.
Eden
one of the pharoahs that is mentioned in the bible is hophra (aka apries, aka ha'a'ibra wahibra).. jeremiah 44:30 says: "this is what jehovah has said: here i am giving phar aoh hoph ra, the king of egypt, into the hand of his enemies and into the hand of those seeking for his soul, just as i have given zedeki ah the king of judah into the hand of nebuchadrez zar the king of babylon, his enemy and the one seeking for his soul.").
the closest the watchtower society gets to attempting to assign any years to hophra is in a questions from readers article in the 1 october 1970, watchtower (incidentally on page 607 of the bound volume).
it states: "egypt made one last attempt to remain a power in asia.
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