i loathed giving talks and doing meeting parts.
i dreaded all assignments.
i was intelligent enough and always did a good job, but all my jw life (born in to mid-30's) i enjoyed giving talks about as much as a visit to the dentist.. i am sure that 90% of all jw's similarly dislike it.
I never had a problem with doing meeting parts and giving talks; I actually enjoyed it and always do it effortlessly, albeit nowadays I have to avoid touching certain topics where my beliefs aren't 'orthodox'. Going on the door-to-door witnessing has always been challenging to me, though.
Eden
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
besty wrote:
- Beliaev and Marvin agree 10x mortality for anemic JWs
- 0.2/100,000 is the accepted mortality rate for anemic non-JW's
- 2/100,000 mortality would be a reasonable assumption for anemic JW's
So, correct me please if I'm reading it wrong, but let's make a little exercise here. Let's assume that there had been a steady number of JW's since 1945: say, 8 million every year (there hasn't, but anyway, indulge me on this "worst case scenario"). Then, we should discover what is the average percentage of the population that will become anemic at some point during their existence as Jehovah's Witness for a year. Anyone would like to take a wild guess?
In the US alone, in the year 2004, a total of 12,105,081 individuals suffered from anemia, out of a total population of 293,655,405 individuals.
( Source: http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/i/iron_deficiency_anemia/stats-country.htm )
This represents a ratio of 4,12 % of the population. Let us for a moment imagine that this is a valid sample that we could use to extrapolate for the population of the whole world (we can't, but let's just presume we can).
So, let's just assume that 4,12% of those 8,000,000 JW's have developed serious anemia that would require a blood transfusion. This means roughly 329.600 JW individuals who statistically would have needed blood every year - and refused it.
Now, applying Marvin's mortality rate of 0,2 / 100.000 to 329.600 individuals, the result would be 0,66 individuals. But, applying besty's educated guess of a 10x higher mortality rate of 2 / 100.000 for anemic Jehovah's Witnesses, then the result is a staggering ... 6,6 individuals per year, worldwide. Now, let's multiply this for 68 years (1945-2013), ad the result is ... *drum roll* ... 449 JW's who presumably might have died from refusing to take blood when facing serious anemia, since the blood ban became a doctrine among the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1945.
Of course the above is a flawed calculation, but you surely get my point with that "worst case scenario": the figures of 50.000 or 250.000 deaths of Jehovah's Witnesses linked with refusal of blood transfusions are but a farse aimed (or having it as a convenient byproduct) at raising hate in the public eye against the Witnesses. This issue deserves awareness based on solid data and solid studies, not baseless sensationalism designed to incite to hate.
Eden
with the release of the new bible, i can pretty much say that the wt religion is no longer the same religion that i left 17 years ago.
it's bizarre.
they have a different bible, a different song book, a different "youth" book, a different "great teacher" book, and the "live forever" book is gone.
This organization keeps evolving and mutating, making organizational and doctrinal changes as it sees fit, in accordance to the current times and circumstances. It does what any corporation does. Why would that surprise you?
Eden
who do you think is the fds on earth today?.
barely any jw can point at a gb member by face, fewer can name the governing body, fewer know these men in person or can account for them as people.
not one person became a jw from reading matthew 24 and saying 'aha!'.
Personally, I'm persuaded that the "faithful and discreete" slave was the apostle Peter during his lifetime. Aside that, the parable has a generic teaching value about faithfulness of any Christian towards the Master.
Eden
here's a lovely idea i heard from an evangelical preacher lately.
he said that any mother who works when it isn't financially necessary is "serving the devil.
" i think i remember that verse.
Funny how things go ...
Everyone gets VERY offended when the GB calls apostates "mentally diseased" individuals. Yet, it's OK to call JW's "crazy ones". Go figure ....
Eden
i struggled with this question before i got baptised.
what helped you to overcome any doubts?.
That's one great illustration, Splash.
Eden
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
For the sake of informed discussion about the risk/benefit of refusing blood, here's a list of studies involving JW's patients:
http://allie.dbcls.jp/pair/JW;Jehovah's+Witness.html
Eden
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
Ok, I can't argue against it. I take your word for it. Still, as I pointed out before, where is the A/B comparison?
Here's a different study conducted in the US, with a much broader sample group:
http://www.petproject.pathology.vcu.edu/pdfs/08-Shander.pdf
Eden
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
I still think it's the same study, besty, only analyzed from two different perspectives. What I DON'T see reflected in this study is an A/B comparison between two sample groups (JW's and non-JW's) and their observable results, stratified, when one receives a blood transfusion and the other refuses.
Eden
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
This is a short of the said study conducted by Dr. Andrei Belyaev (AKA Beliaev):
BACKGROUND: Management of anaemic Jehovah's Witness (JW) patients, who refuse blood transfusion on religious grounds, is challenging. In the published literature, there are few cohort studies that consider causes of mortality in isolation and are lacking in their predictive power. This does not allow clinicians to monitor treatment progress of severely anaemic JW patients and adjust their risk of mortality. The study aims to develop an anaemia-related mortality risk prediction instrument. METHODS: This retrospective cohort study evaluated anaemia-related mortality risk factors of JW patients. JW patients were identified from the records of four major public hospitals in the Auckland and Midlands regions of New Zealand (North Shore, Auckland City, Middlemore and Waikato hospitals) for the period 1998 to 2007 inclusive. The inclusion criteria were age ≥15 years and severe anaemia (haemoglobin concentration ≤80 g/L). Palliative care cancer patients were excluded. RESULTS: Anaemia-related risk factors of mortality for JW patients were identified, weighted and used to construct a mortality risk predictive score (the Hamilton Anaemia Mortality Risk Score (Hamilton AMRS)). This permitted stratification of JW patients into mortality risk groups according to their Hamilton AMRS. It is shown that patients with Hamilton AMRS of 0 to 2 had 4% mortality, patients with Hamilton AMRS of 3 to 4 had 29% mortality, patients with Hamilton AMRS of 5 had 40% mortality and patients with Hamilton AMRS of ≥6 had 67% mortality. CONCLUSION: The Hamilton AMRS allows treatment monitoring of anaemic JW patients and adjustment of their risk of mortality.
This can be found at:
Now, can someone enlighten me how can someone extrapolate from these figures to arrive at an overal estimation of 50.000 or 250.000 deaths among JW's in direct consequence of blood transfusion refusal, world-wide, since 1945 (or 1954) ?
Eden
