EdenOne

Joined

• started 155 topics
• posted 2,912 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by EdenOne

• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  After many pages of this tiresome, yet useful thread, I conclude again what I've concluded before:

  a) It's impossible to determine exactly how many JW's have died unecessarily as a direct consequence of their refusal to accept blood for doctrinal objection to it.

  b) To claim that 250.000 JW's have died as a result of strict adherence to this doctrine is therefore an unverifiable claim; plus, by empirical observation, it's clearly a gross exxageration;

  c) To claim that even 50.000 JW's have died as a result of strict adherence to this doctrine is also a baseless claim, because it requires completely unnaceptable extrapolations from tiny numbers in one tiny regional study that cannot be anywhere close to a faithful sample of the world's population, much less of the entire JW community world-wide. Again, empirical observation doesn't agree with this number either.

  d) In all likeliness, the number of actual JW deaths that can be truly qualified as 'unnecessary' and a 'direct consequence of blood refusal', and each of these being a product of 'strict adherence' to the WTS 'blood doctrine', while impossible to determine accurately, it's a much, much lower number than both estimations that have been discussed.

  e) This is not to say that one death isn't one death too many. The doctrine is wrong, is harmful, and requires public awareness. But ultimately, if other constitutional rights on personal freedoms are to be respected, so is the right to self-determination towards one's body.

  f) Lastly, by making such a tweet as a member of AAWA, Ms. JB. not only payed a disservice to AAWA, further undermined its already shakey credibility, contributed to the denegrition of all other Watchtower's sincere critics (aka 'apostates'), fueled the GB's claims that apostates will use every lie and deceit to fight 'God's True Channel", and, most of all, did nothing but purposedly intenting to spark hatred in the public opinion upon common JW's who choose to remain as such.

  So, well, done, Ms. JB! Way to go. What an asset you are to your organization.

  Eden
• 
  31

  Since most JW's HATE giving talks and doing meeting parts, why does the Watchtower Society still require it?

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i loathed giving talks and doing meeting parts.

  i dreaded all assignments.

  i was intelligent enough and always did a good job, but all my jw life (born in to mid-30's) i enjoyed giving talks about as much as a visit to the dentist.. i am sure that 90% of all jw's similarly dislike it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  I never had a problem with doing meeting parts and giving talks; I actually enjoyed it and always do it effortlessly, albeit nowadays I have to avoid touching certain topics where my beliefs aren't 'orthodox'. Going on the door-to-door witnessing has always been challenging to me, though.

  Eden
• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  besty wrote:

  - Beliaev and Marvin agree 10x mortality for anemic JWs

  - 0.2/100,000 is the accepted mortality rate for anemic non-JW's

  - 2/100,000 mortality would be a reasonable assumption for anemic JW's

  So, correct me please if I'm reading it wrong, but let's make a little exercise here. Let's assume that there had been a steady number of JW's since 1945: say, 8 million every year (there hasn't, but anyway, indulge me on this "worst case scenario"). Then, we should discover what is the average percentage of the population that will become anemic at some point during their existence as Jehovah's Witness for a year. Anyone would like to take a wild guess?

  In the US alone, in the year 2004, a total of 12,105,081 individuals suffered from anemia, out of a total population of 293,655,405 individuals.

  ( Source: http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/i/iron_deficiency_anemia/stats-country.htm )

  This represents a ratio of 4,12 % of the population. Let us for a moment imagine that this is a valid sample that we could use to extrapolate for the population of the whole world (we can't, but let's just presume we can).

  So, let's just assume that 4,12% of those 8,000,000 JW's have developed serious anemia that would require a blood transfusion. This means roughly 329.600 JW individuals who statistically would have needed blood every year - and refused it.

  Now, applying Marvin's mortality rate of 0,2 / 100.000 to 329.600 individuals, the result would be 0,66 individuals. But, applying besty's educated guess of a 10x higher mortality rate of 2 / 100.000 for anemic Jehovah's Witnesses, then the result is a staggering ... 6,6 individuals per year, worldwide. Now, let's multiply this for 68 years (1945-2013), ad the result is ... *drum roll* ... 449 JW's who presumably might have died from refusing to take blood when facing serious anemia, since the blood ban became a doctrine among the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1945.

  Of course the above is a flawed calculation, but you surely get my point with that "worst case scenario": the figures of 50.000 or 250.000 deaths of Jehovah's Witnesses linked with refusal of blood transfusions are but a farse aimed (or having it as a convenient byproduct) at raising hate in the public eye against the Witnesses. This issue deserves awareness based on solid data and solid studies, not baseless sensationalism designed to incite to hate.

  Eden
• 
  21

  The Revamped Organization

  by Nosferatu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with the release of the new bible, i can pretty much say that the wt religion is no longer the same religion that i left 17 years ago.

  it's bizarre.

  they have a different bible, a different song book, a different "youth" book, a different "great teacher" book, and the "live forever" book is gone.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  This organization keeps evolving and mutating, making organizational and doctrinal changes as it sees fit, in accordance to the current times and circumstances. It does what any corporation does. Why would that surprise you?

  Eden
• 
  15

  Jw's: Who do you identify as the FDS?

  by snare&racket in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  who do you think is the fds on earth today?.

  barely any jw can point at a gb member by face, fewer can name the governing body, fewer know these men in person or can account for them as people.

  not one person became a jw from reading matthew 24 and saying 'aha!'.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Personally, I'm persuaded that the "faithful and discreete" slave was the apostle Peter during his lifetime. Aside that, the parable has a generic teaching value about faithfulness of any Christian towards the Master.

  Eden
• 
  10

  JWs aren't the only crazy ones...

  by ilikecheese in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's a lovely idea i heard from an evangelical preacher lately.

  he said that any mother who works when it isn't financially necessary is "serving the devil.

  " i think i remember that verse.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Funny how things go ...

  Everyone gets VERY offended when the GB calls apostates "mentally diseased" individuals. Yet, it's OK to call JW's "crazy ones". Go figure ....

  Eden
• 
  110

  Stand For Pure Worship, what convinces you that the governing body is being used by Jehovah? Thanks.

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i struggled with this question before i got baptised.

  what helped you to overcome any doubts?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  That's one great illustration, Splash.

  Eden
• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  For the sake of informed discussion about the risk/benefit of refusing blood, here's a list of studies involving JW's patients:

  http://allie.dbcls.jp/pair/JW;Jehovah's+Witness.html

  Eden
• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Ok, I can't argue against it. I take your word for it. Still, as I pointed out before, where is the A/B comparison?

  Here's a different study conducted in the US, with a much broader sample group:

  http://www.petproject.pathology.vcu.edu/pdfs/08-Shander.pdf

  Eden
• 
  739

  250,000 Jehovah's Witnesses have died refusing blood

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.

  250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.

  stop this #cult!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  I still think it's the same study, besty, only analyzed from two different perspectives. What I DON'T see reflected in this study is an A/B comparison between two sample groups (JW's and non-JW's) and their observable results, stratified, when one receives a blood transfusion and the other refuses.

  Eden