EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  108

  "Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.

  naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.

  but i'm interested in hearing yours.

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  EdenOne

  Laika, as you can imagine, I'm not defending an "organization", so don't get me wrong. I'm only gathering valid arguments to counter it.

  Eden
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  108

  "Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.

  naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.

  but i'm interested in hearing yours.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  That's actually a good point. If Israel was an "organization", how that experience turned out for God?

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

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  EdenOne

  Cofty,

  Our world may not be the "best of worlds", as Leibniz has put it, but it's the best of the feasable worlds to produce intelligent life as we know it. I wonder if a planet without moving tectonic plates (and the consequent earthquakes and tsunamis) would be able to produce and sustain life as we know it, especially intelligent life such as ours. Perhaps that's the acceptable trade-off for life itself to exist. There's no absolute perfection except perhaps in the very person of God. "Perfection", in the relative sense, is something being optimally adequate to its purpose or function. In this sense, our world is adequate for producing and sustaining the life, even the intelligent life we find in it, therefore, "perfect". If you can produce me a world where material intelligent life came to existence, and where tectonic plates don't cause earthquaques and tsunamis and havoc and destruction, perhaps I'll be willing to revise my position.

  Eden
• 
  108

  "Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.

  naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.

  but i'm interested in hearing yours.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  That's a more accurate notion, Blondie. God may use an organization, but he doesn't need one. And even when he uses one, he can operate outside that organization, not exclusively through it.

  Laika: Any nation is a form of organized society, therefore, an organization of sorts.

  Eden
• 
  108

  "Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.

  naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.

  but i'm interested in hearing yours.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  That's a line of reasoning I've used, Tim.

  Unfortunately they make a fairly reasonable point that the christian congregation and ancient priesthood and kingship of Israel are forms of organization, so, while the term isn't in the Bible, the concept is. I may disagree, but it's a fair point.

  Eden
• 
  46

  Head of the House?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i often see comments by ex-jws that would suggest some men still view themselves as "head of the house".

  sometimes comments from women appear to support the idea as well.. how many still see things this way or have you completely got over it?.

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  EdenOne

  Cofty, you got a PM
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  It's your choice to not want to engage me based on your judgement of my "worth", Gladiator. I'm sure you're glad to have that choice and use it to your liking.

  And, btw, since you brought up "rational thinking".

  Rationallity: " Rationality is a normative concept that refers to the conformity of one's beliefs with one's resons to believe, or of one's actions with one's reasons for action." I don't see how I'm drifting from rational thinking, as per the above definition.

  You may question my reasons to believe, but it's improper to acuse me of abandoning "rational thinking". That's a common fallacy used by those eager to attack believers, Gladiator.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  A man decides to take a business trip to Dubai and invites his wife to come along. She decides she doesn't want to go because it would be boring for her; while he's gone, a storm happens and a tree hits the house during a storm, and the wife gets killed.

  Will you blame the man for taking the trip and not being home? Because if he had been home, he might have taken his wife out in time before the disaster. It was within his power, right?

  Will you blame the man for not watching the weather report and call his wife to tell her she must go out of the house for the storm would surely knock the tree down? It was also within his power, right?

  Will you blame the wife for taking the decision of not going on the trip and staying at home instead?

  Will you blame the tree for it?

  Will you blame the contractor who built the house for him?

  Who will you blame for it?

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  As for your question #1, that is fair and deserves an answer:

  1. If god ceased being interventionist after Jesus' resurrection, how do you account for all the deaths from natural disasters prior to 33AD?

  I can only say that, exception made to the cases in the Bible where God is credited for causing a natural disaster, with a punitive purpose attatched to it, I don't see how God can be acused of causing every other natural disaster. As such, and because I only see God sparing people from disasters that He caused, I conclude that those deaths are a product of people being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not their fault, it's not anybody's fault.

  Eden
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Romans 9:22 - shows that God is willing to show his destructive power, but has refrained to so do because he has been showing mercy towards those pursuit the hope he gives. Romans 2:4 shows that God does so in order to allow people to reach repentance. So, yes, I do believe that God is refraining from interfeering. Why he has interfeered in the pre-christian past? I have a few guesses, but - correct me if I'm wrong on this one - I don't see God expressly saving people from natural disasters except when he was the one causing them, therefore, in control of such events.

  Btw, this

  How did the 250 000 victims of the tsunami choose to be killed on 26th Dec 2004?

  is an abominable fallacy and doesn't deserve an answer. It's bellow you, Cofty, and you know it. Stop being obtuse.

  Eden