EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  7

  A FUNDAMENTALIST changes his mind (how very rare!) Intellectual honesty at work

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  from professor bart ehrman's blog: fundamentalists and the variants in our manuscripts20.

  jun.

  first, our friends among the fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals.

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  EdenOne

  One is faced with a hard choice here. Either

  a) God was competent to inspire / move human writers to write his words and thoughts, but incompetent to preserve the anadultered message of the original writings;

  or

  b) God never intended to produce a "Bible", an authorized anthology of books detailing some of his dealings with mankind, his words and thoughts, And therefore, had no interest in miraculously preserve those writings in pristine original form for posterity;

  or

  c) Nothing that was ever written as 'inspired scripture' was ever produced by God, is merely the endeavour of humans who wrote 'inspired', in the sense that they had God in mind when they wrote down their own thoughts.

  Hard choice.

  Eden
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  26

  Nebuchadnezzar's Dream--The Death of His Dynasty

  by Tiresias in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  following my departure from the jehovah's witnesses, i have done my own research using preterism as a primary lens.

  i would like to share my understanding of daniel chapter 2:.

  31 "you looked, o king, and there before you stood a large statuean enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance.

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  EdenOne

  Tiresias,

  You can find an article I wrote about it here:

  “The Most High rules over the kingdoms of the world and gives them to anyone he chooses.” - A commentary on Daniel chapters 2, 3 and 4

  Eden
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  78

  God exists? God doesn't? God is a different concept? Convince me!

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am in a spiritual void at the moment after a year out of the borg and 50 years in.. i'd like to hear 'brief' evidence for the existance or non existance of god/s without an argument between members here.. i'd like to get fresh view points as mine is now so critical it's telling me to be an agnostic or atheist.

  why?

  i am in want of evidence, not just words from a copy/paste troll & no links.. i just want to open up to new possibilities but with evidence to support it not just 'faith'..

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  EdenOne

  Marked
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  26

  Nebuchadnezzar's Dream--The Death of His Dynasty

  by Tiresias in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  following my departure from the jehovah's witnesses, i have done my own research using preterism as a primary lens.

  i would like to share my understanding of daniel chapter 2:.

  31 "you looked, o king, and there before you stood a large statuean enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance.

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  EdenOne

  I came to that same conclusion myself last year. Eden
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  16

  What drives good people to do evil things without blinking?

  by EdenOne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please read this short article and then think for a minute on how this apply to those amongst the jehovah's witnessses who enforce organizational policies that harm people (such as shunning, for example, but there are others, such as blood, rejection of higher education etc), and those who blindly comply with such pratices - both of them otherwise "nice, good people" in every other regards, and who apparently don't see anything wrong in doing something harmful, even evil, to their brethren.. what is this?

  the "banality of evil", or, instead, because there's such a strong identification with a cause, people just accept they are doing the right thing simply because the authority that is regarded as legitimatly representing such cause has instructed them to do so?.

  interesting thought - and this question too: if one ceases to see such "authority" as the legitimate agent of the cause, will that simple change cause the blind to finally become aware of the evil they've been enforcing / complying to?.

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  EdenOne

  Thank you, Jgnat.

  I just went through the first link on the Zimbardo's experiment. It's awfully disturbing. If one thinks that "prision guards" = congregation elders / CO's can be intoxicated by their own authority with such ease, then it's no wonder that they take on the role so agressively. Especially because they are given certain (imaginary) 'perks', such as participation in exclusive schools, seminars, being privy to certain informations otherwise not accessible to the R&F, that makes them feel privileged - and they're not prepared to let go of that status. They too are victims in this pyramid scheme, I'd say.

  Eden
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  EdenOne

  TJ Curioso ... I'd like to read your article. I can read portuguese. Can you PM me please?

  Eden
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  16

  What drives good people to do evil things without blinking?

  by EdenOne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please read this short article and then think for a minute on how this apply to those amongst the jehovah's witnessses who enforce organizational policies that harm people (such as shunning, for example, but there are others, such as blood, rejection of higher education etc), and those who blindly comply with such pratices - both of them otherwise "nice, good people" in every other regards, and who apparently don't see anything wrong in doing something harmful, even evil, to their brethren.. what is this?

  the "banality of evil", or, instead, because there's such a strong identification with a cause, people just accept they are doing the right thing simply because the authority that is regarded as legitimatly representing such cause has instructed them to do so?.

  interesting thought - and this question too: if one ceases to see such "authority" as the legitimate agent of the cause, will that simple change cause the blind to finally become aware of the evil they've been enforcing / complying to?.

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  EdenOne

  Point is:

  Instead of attempting to dismantle the elaborate [albeit fragile] doctrinal construction of the JW's, with its admittedly very attractive notion of eternal life in a paradise on earth, isn't it more effective to expose and discredit the leadership that supposedly is the 'legitimate' agent of such ideology - and the rest would naturally follow? Because that is what eventually worked for me, reading Raymond Franz's "Crisis of Conscience" made the myth of the Organization and its Governing Body break into pieces very quickly. From that moment on, I could never again regard this organization as being from God. That has opened a lot of new alleys for research.

  Eden
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  9

  For 46 years Jehovah's Witnesses compromised their worship in Mexico to retain ownership of material property

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qohven3gjlk.

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  EdenOne

  Marked
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  16

  What drives good people to do evil things without blinking?

  by EdenOne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please read this short article and then think for a minute on how this apply to those amongst the jehovah's witnessses who enforce organizational policies that harm people (such as shunning, for example, but there are others, such as blood, rejection of higher education etc), and those who blindly comply with such pratices - both of them otherwise "nice, good people" in every other regards, and who apparently don't see anything wrong in doing something harmful, even evil, to their brethren.. what is this?

  the "banality of evil", or, instead, because there's such a strong identification with a cause, people just accept they are doing the right thing simply because the authority that is regarded as legitimatly representing such cause has instructed them to do so?.

  interesting thought - and this question too: if one ceases to see such "authority" as the legitimate agent of the cause, will that simple change cause the blind to finally become aware of the evil they've been enforcing / complying to?.

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  EdenOne

  Objectivetruth

  You've made a few good points that I'd like to address.

  What is a "good person" indeed? In my personal view it's someone who not only refrains from harming others, he/she endeavours to do good to others, primarily his own kin (provide love, education, shelter and sustenance), then his neighbours / friends (affection, assistance), and, if possible, the community (assistance, relief, community work) where such person is inserted. Therefore, a "good person" isn't a flawless person. Such person may have inconsistencies, even outright contradictions and weaknesses. But that person at least tries to overcome or mask its own shortcomings for the common good. The broader and more inclusive are his/her efforts to encompass more people, the better that person is. This is my general notion of what makes a "good person" - it's my idea of it, it's subjective and not everyone will agree with it, of course. Works for me, at least.

  I think it's an interesting notion that the way we balance love with power with justice with wisdom, and how we use pride and humility as wheights, defines us as people. However, there are other factors at play - such as mental impairments, emotional damage, upbringing, etc...so it's far more complicated than that.

  As for "self confidence" and "insecurities", I agree that they have an important part to play, and help explain how some are inclined to act in compliance with an authority, but i think you've missed an important component of the said study:

  The study mentioned in the Article is a Prime Example of this.. The Test subjects that were responsible for Increasing Voltage at the request of the Supervisor, did so because they were insecure and they feared dissapointing the Instructor.

  While the above is partially true, you should also notice that those who believed in the superior value of science were also the ones who were more keen to inflict pain on others in the name of advancing scientific knowledge. That had little to do with fear and insecurity - it had to do with a creed in the intrinsic superiority of a cause [in this case, science]. They were willing to inflict a potentially deadly voltage discharge on the test subject because they believed it would help advance the superior cause they believed in. The more intense was this belief, the less objections they posed in administrating suffering to others.

  Eden
• 
  16

  What drives good people to do evil things without blinking?

  by EdenOne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please read this short article and then think for a minute on how this apply to those amongst the jehovah's witnessses who enforce organizational policies that harm people (such as shunning, for example, but there are others, such as blood, rejection of higher education etc), and those who blindly comply with such pratices - both of them otherwise "nice, good people" in every other regards, and who apparently don't see anything wrong in doing something harmful, even evil, to their brethren.. what is this?

  the "banality of evil", or, instead, because there's such a strong identification with a cause, people just accept they are doing the right thing simply because the authority that is regarded as legitimatly representing such cause has instructed them to do so?.

  interesting thought - and this question too: if one ceases to see such "authority" as the legitimate agent of the cause, will that simple change cause the blind to finally become aware of the evil they've been enforcing / complying to?.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  EdenOne

  Please read this short article and then think for a minute on how this apply to those amongst the Jehovah's Witnessses who enforce organizational policies that harm people (such as shunning, for example, but there are others, such as blood, rejection of higher education etc), and those who blindly comply with such pratices - both of them otherwise "nice, good people" in every other regards, and who apparently don't see anything wrong in doing something harmful, even evil, to their brethren.

  What is this? The "banality of evil", or, instead, because there's such a strong identification with a cause, people just accept they are doing the right thing simply because the authority that is regarded as legitimatly representing such cause has instructed them to do so?

  Interesting thought - and this question too: If one ceases to see such "authority" as the legitimate agent of the cause, will that simple change cause the blind to finally become aware of the evil they've been enforcing / complying to?

  Eden