EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

• 
  443

  Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

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  EdenOne

  Wasn't that the same talk he delivered in the Bethel of Italy a couple of months ago?
• 
  443

  Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

  .

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Whatever 'privileged information' they don't want to become public knowledge too soon, I think they're perfectly aware that this information will leak and get viral, first among the apostate community then among the faithful rank & file. What do they aim to achieve?

  Eden
• 
  23

  Religion without revelation - any examples from the past?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm researching on the common trait of mostly every religion coming from pre-humanist times, and that would be, the notion of "revelation", that is, that at the beginning of every [i say this with caution because i'm admitting to exceptions] religion there is some sort of "revelation" from supernatural being(s) of some sort.. my question is: do you know of any example of religions from the past that you can confidently say that were exempt from "revelation"?

  this is not the same as asking if there were religions without gods, or religions of nature.

  i'm not even considering what i understand as philosophical-ethical systems, such as confucionism or platonism my purpose is to find out if, at the starting point of all religions of the past, there is a "revelation", or merely "observation / contemplation".

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  EdenOne

  What about the "enlightenment" of Siddarta Gautama (Buddha)? How did that come about?

  Eden
• 
  82

  Gerrit Losch's "I DO NOT ANSWER TO WATCHTOWER"

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. social
  2. current

  in gerrit losch's public statement to the superior copurt of california.

  http://www.watchtower.exposed/?p=364.

  documents: https://www.dropbox.com/s/49zyexvagn7ux7j/losch%20public%20statement.jpg?dl=0.

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  EdenOne

  On my part, I'm grateful that Mr. Loesch and WT lawyers make this kind of statements: it was exactly how my wife opened her eyes to the shameless hypocrytes these men are. As a result, she left. Keep it coming, 'bro' Loesch!

  Eden
• 
  82

  Gerrit Losch's "I DO NOT ANSWER TO WATCHTOWER"

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. social
  2. current

  in gerrit losch's public statement to the superior copurt of california.

  http://www.watchtower.exposed/?p=364.

  documents: https://www.dropbox.com/s/49zyexvagn7ux7j/losch%20public%20statement.jpg?dl=0.

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  EdenOne

  So, if Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses = Governing Body, sue them as well.

  Eden
• 
  82

  Gerrit Losch's "I DO NOT ANSWER TO WATCHTOWER"

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. social
  2. current

  in gerrit losch's public statement to the superior copurt of california.

  http://www.watchtower.exposed/?p=364.

  documents: https://www.dropbox.com/s/49zyexvagn7ux7j/losch%20public%20statement.jpg?dl=0.

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• 

  EdenOne

  Actually because Loesch was a member of the GB before 2000, and therefore, liable as a former member of the Board of Directors of the Watchtower Society, I wouldn't be surprised if he comes to 'resign' from his GB position in order to avoid being called to stand before a court.

  Eden
• 
  82

  Gerrit Losch's "I DO NOT ANSWER TO WATCHTOWER"

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. social
  2. current

  in gerrit losch's public statement to the superior copurt of california.

  http://www.watchtower.exposed/?p=364.

  documents: https://www.dropbox.com/s/49zyexvagn7ux7j/losch%20public%20statement.jpg?dl=0.

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  EdenOne

  Seems to me that future lawsuits must be directed both at the Watchtower [Corporation] AND at the Governing Body as well, since they clearly attempt to legally disentangle themselves, whilst 'spiritual oversight entity' over the Jehovah's Witnesses, from the Administrative, corporate entity. Therefore, who decides the doctrinally-driven policies isn't the Watchtower per se, but solely the Governing Body.

  At least until some jurisprudence establishes a chain of command between the Governing Body and the Watchtower. We all know it exists, but prove it in a court of law is a whole other ball game. Remember, both entities were legally separated in 2000 under Henschel.

  Eden
• 
  23

  Religion without revelation - any examples from the past?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm researching on the common trait of mostly every religion coming from pre-humanist times, and that would be, the notion of "revelation", that is, that at the beginning of every [i say this with caution because i'm admitting to exceptions] religion there is some sort of "revelation" from supernatural being(s) of some sort.. my question is: do you know of any example of religions from the past that you can confidently say that were exempt from "revelation"?

  this is not the same as asking if there were religions without gods, or religions of nature.

  i'm not even considering what i understand as philosophical-ethical systems, such as confucionism or platonism my purpose is to find out if, at the starting point of all religions of the past, there is a "revelation", or merely "observation / contemplation".

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  EdenOne

  Ruby:

  i'd like to question and broaden what "revelation from the a supernatural source" means anyway.

  Perhaps it's best if I give you a familiar example. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are said to be "Abrahamic" faiths. How did Abraham get his faith in the first place? By means of a revelation from the divinity:

  Genesis 12:1-4 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” So Abram went, as the Lord had told him (...)

  I'm not setting a discussion here if Abraham really heard a REAL voice from God, or if he was schizophrenic and IMAGINED to hear a voice from the supernatural realm, or if Abraham invented the whole story, or if this entire story is an "ad-hoc" mythologization from a later period of time. What I mean is: At the beginning of Abraham's faith [according to Genesis, that is; if you read 1 Enoch the story goes considerably different] there's a "revelation" from a supernatural source.

  Eden
• 
  23

  Religion without revelation - any examples from the past?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm researching on the common trait of mostly every religion coming from pre-humanist times, and that would be, the notion of "revelation", that is, that at the beginning of every [i say this with caution because i'm admitting to exceptions] religion there is some sort of "revelation" from supernatural being(s) of some sort.. my question is: do you know of any example of religions from the past that you can confidently say that were exempt from "revelation"?

  this is not the same as asking if there were religions without gods, or religions of nature.

  i'm not even considering what i understand as philosophical-ethical systems, such as confucionism or platonism my purpose is to find out if, at the starting point of all religions of the past, there is a "revelation", or merely "observation / contemplation".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  BOTR, my "problem" with revelation is that it can rationally be disputed as a) product of mental illness; b) product of an induced altered state of mind (hypnosis, drugs, starvation, dehydration, sun stroke, delirium...); c) ad-hoc mythologization; d) deliberate deceit.

  My hypothesis is that, at the basis of [most] every religion before humanist age, there is always a "revelation", or a "supernatural enlightenment", or a "mystical connection with the supernatural domain". I would like to know if any religion has developed out of mere observation or thought process that doesn't include the supernatural.

  And, Vivian, good observation about Jainism.

  Eden
• 
  23

  Religion without revelation - any examples from the past?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm researching on the common trait of mostly every religion coming from pre-humanist times, and that would be, the notion of "revelation", that is, that at the beginning of every [i say this with caution because i'm admitting to exceptions] religion there is some sort of "revelation" from supernatural being(s) of some sort.. my question is: do you know of any example of religions from the past that you can confidently say that were exempt from "revelation"?

  this is not the same as asking if there were religions without gods, or religions of nature.

  i'm not even considering what i understand as philosophical-ethical systems, such as confucionism or platonism my purpose is to find out if, at the starting point of all religions of the past, there is a "revelation", or merely "observation / contemplation".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Coded Logic:

  Wait, are you looking for a religion whos founder didn't claim revelation?

  Yes, exactly. Whatever mythology came to be constructed afterwords by its adherents, it's not relevant as long as it hasn't become a fundamental part of that religion.

  Eden