Posts by EdenOne

39

why didnt God just do this?

by sowhatnow in

for one thing, i cant get past genesis, but no matter.. when god told adam and eve if you eat from the tree youll die.

so why did he not simple let them die and not allow the offspring to?.

you see, if i was a god, and i told two people that, id let them die , .

Apognophos, naturally, you're right. We're seeing things from the viewpoint of Paul. Still, that reflects the jewish concept that sin was introduced to mankind by the original sin of Adam and Eve and that's who evil came into the world.

Eden

51

just wanted to introduce myself

by TheMark in

jw
friends

i've been a lurker for quite some time and enjoy the forum.

i've reached a point in life where i don't argue ideologies anymore so i don't have much to say.

i've been out for decades and believe i've been mostly de-cultabilized (if that's even a word).. my family is still in and i haven't had contact with them in years.

EdenOne

Welcome Mark!

39

why didnt God just do this?

by sowhatnow in

for one thing, i cant get past genesis, but no matter.. when god told adam and eve if you eat from the tree youll die.

so why did he not simple let them die and not allow the offspring to?.

you see, if i was a god, and i told two people that, id let them die , .

EdenOne

The above reasoning is what led me to see the absurdity of the ransom doctrine, also the flaws of the 'original sin' tale, and the purpoted transmission mechanism of sin. It's just men trying to make sense of evil And misery in this world, nothing else.

Eden

39

why didnt God just do this?

by sowhatnow in

for one thing, i cant get past genesis, but no matter.. when god told adam and eve if you eat from the tree youll die.

so why did he not simple let them die and not allow the offspring to?.

you see, if i was a god, and i told two people that, id let them die , .

EdenOne

Even IF the story of Adam and Eve was real (it's a myth, but for argument sake, let's pretend it was real), the reasoning behind it is: Sin is transmitted in some mysterious hereditary way, perhaps genetically, so, when Adam And Eve sinned, their offspring was inevitably sentenced to inherit their sin by birth. The reason God allowed this was so that thefirst couple could generate offspring, thus fulfilling God's will, but, at the same time, fulfilling God's justice, The first human couple couldn't escape the capital punishment they were warned about. No worries, because, oh rejoice! Jehovah would eventually after waiting 6000+ years of human suffering make things right for mankind through the ransom provided by his only-begotten perfect Son, Jesus, even bringing miraculously back to life those who died because of that 'inherited sin.'

Sounds neat and plausible? To most Jehovah's Witnesses it does. However, consider this:

If you ask any Jehovah's Witness if God is the paradigm of the perfect father to whom keeping the well-being of his children is paramount, you will hear a resounding YES! It follows then, that it would be unthinkable that Jehovah would subject his children to unecessary suffering unless there was no other alternative, right? Another resounding YES! It follows, then, that it was absolutely impossible to Jehovah to keep Adam and Eve's offspring from inheriting sin, without God breaking his word of judgement, right? A hesitating YES would follow.

Well, in that case, please explain: How come God was able to protect Jesus, who was fully human, born of a sinful woman, from inheriting Adamic sin, but he couldn't protect Adam and Eve's children from inheriting their sin? If God did it for Jesus, why didn't he do it for Cain, Abel and Set and other children? Because, as far as we can see, God would still be true to his word if he sentenced the first couple to death, while allowing them to generate a perfect offspring in the meantime. And even if Satan challenged that every human being wouldn't keep their integrity towards God, that challenge could be answered just as well (and even more so) by a perfect human offspring, thus eliminating the need for a 'perfect redeemer' that only God could provide.

So, either:

a) God isn't a good father, because he allowed his human creation to suffer unecessarily - it was in his power to stop the transmission of sin, and he didn't. This also caused his Son Jesus to suffer and die as a redeemer unecessarily, because, if every generation after Adam and Eve was born free from sin, and would only become sinner on their own doing, there would be no necessity at all for a perfect man coming from heaven to die for mankind's sins.

or

b) In order to be sin-free, Jesus wasn't born from a human woman, and therefore he wasn't fully human. Therefore, his life wasn't the equivalent of the perfect human life that Adam lost. This invalidates the ransom ideology.

Which one is it, then?

Eden

32

Jehovah's organization growing like never before: but bible studies are way down. Huh?

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

so the governing body likes to keep claiming incredible growth.

at the same time they claim bible studies are way down.

are the finally admitting what we've known all along, that they can no longer recruit outsiders?

EdenOne

Maybe by now Tony Morris knows the numbers for the service year ending in August 31st 2014, and they show a decrease relative to the numbers published in 2013's Yearbook.

Eden

32

Jehovah's organization growing like never before: but bible studies are way down. Huh?

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

so the governing body likes to keep claiming incredible growth.

at the same time they claim bible studies are way down.

are the finally admitting what we've known all along, that they can no longer recruit outsiders?

EdenOne

Don't forget the CONTEXT of the remark: A Zone visit to the US. So, "growth" can be perceived worldwide, but specifically in the US, the number of Bible Studies is diminishing, hence the heads-up.

Eden

15

My Wife Takes the "Spiritual Belief System" Quiz

by breakfast of champions in

so i asked my wife to take the "spiritual belief system" quiz online.

now, this is not claiming to be a scientifically accurate system to determine your religious affiliation, but i thought it would be an interesting exercise.. for those who haven't seen it, the questionnaire is here:.

http://www.selectsmart.com/religion/.

EdenOne

Funny how things change. I took this test a little over a year ago and the top result was JW. Now it's down to 12%. Surprisingly, 100% Unitarian Universalist, 82% Liberal Quakers, 77% Secular Humanism make the top 3 now.

Eden

35

Earth rotates the wrong way. ( no one even knew that )

by kairos in

i've heard it mentioned a few times.. the rotating earth graphic in the background on jwtv rotates backwards.. i've mentioned it to the active and they are not concerned at all.. my response is, "it's something they are portraying that cannot be more wrong".. .

two gb members have stood in front of it telling us to trust them.

how can you when they think the sun rises in the west.... .

EdenOne

The earth clearly revolves around the Watchtower HQ.

Eden

9

Anthony Morris III is really Anthony Esposito?

by VM44 in

can anyone confirm that gb member anthony morris iii's real birth name is anthony esposito?.

if it is, that would explain why it has been hard to find his military record, or any other biographical information about him.. .

.

EdenOne

Why, then, would he be called "Morris III" if he was adopted? Wouldn't that imply a "Morris II" and a "Morris" in his ancestry? i know one thing doesn't rule out the other, but normally those dynastic type of conventions are based on bloodlines.

Eden

10

Anthony Morris' family?

by StarTrekAngel in

just simple quesiton.

in one video i saw, anthony morris iii makes the comment "i come from a wealthy family, you all know that".

does anyone know who this family is?

EdenOne

His spiritual family is indeed wealthy ... his Father owns the universe and his older brother has a kingdom over heaven and earth, and his other 12 half-brothers all sit on the administration board.

Eden