Posts by EdenOne

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

Great responses, thanks. I brought it up, not because I plan to go back to this discussion with that Elder, for as long as he continues to be in such a position of authority within JW land, and I'm not DF, I can't have a frank discussion with him; and if I'm DF he won't even communicate with me anyway. So, only if he someday wakes up - unlikely, at this point. In any case, since it was such a contrived argument, I thought it was useful to discuss it since it may well come up in situations involving others here. I think that, when someone feels it's reasonable to resort to that type of argument, any chance of trying to successfuly use an effective rational argument is entirely hopeless and wasted. The more I distance myself from the WTS, the crazier it all seems.

Eden

75

New forum 'parousia' is upon us! (software version)

by Simon in

the time has nearly come to switch over to the new forum software.

of course it's not completely finished yet (and never will be) but i think it's good enough to go live with and probably already better than the current one.

i'll give you a quick overview of what to expect and post more detail about the changeover process later.. cloud platform.

EdenOne

Great work Simon! Tons of appreciation for what you do.

Eden

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

I don't think I'll ever have another conversation of this sort with him, as now I'm being treated as stranger for not attending meetings anymore. But back then, that reasoning was so bluntly stupid that it caught me off guard that someone could actually racionalize things in such way. And that was the guy in charge of determining if I was going to be considered an apostate or not. Clearly I wasn't in a position to win that argument, so I didn't even reply to that. But it stayed in my memory as a monument to religious irrationality.

Eden

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

It actually has its own logic, ADCMS, because, to a believer, Jehovah is The one who defines at any time what is wrong And what is right. If one accepts this proposition as true [and it's hammered countless times into JW's minds], then the logical leap to accept 'present truth' framework isn't all that big.

OR- you could simply scratch your head and say, "you are delusional, aren't you?"

Had to laugh at that one SOP.

Eden

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

It really felt like trying to reason with a "know-it-all" 8 year-old. I just gave up at that point because basically he pulled Monopoly's "free from jail" card, and would keep on using it time after time. Besides, as OEJ said, I was walking on thin ice then, and couldn't afford to be seen as blatantly apostate, so I felt it was wiser to drop it, despite my insides being severely revolted.

Eden

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

During one of those meetings that took place before my JC, one of the Elders, who was a good friend of mine back then And used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:

Eden - "Well, if The truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)? How can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?"

Elder - " The truth never changes. It's our perspective on The truth that may change, but The truth has always been The same".

Eden - "Well, then, by your own admission, the Organization has been wrong a few times in The past. Doesn't that at least prove that it's possible it may be wrong at present day?"

Elder - "No, The Organization is never wrong"

Eden - "What ?!? But you just said ..."

Elder - "The Organization is only wrong when we look back and see that Jehovah corrected its course. So, it's only wrong in retrospect, never at present time. If Jehovah allows for a teaching or procedure to persist, it's because He wants it that way, therefore it can Never be wrong at any time in present time".

I found it pointless to argue further about this at that point. But I'm curious, because that was an angle I had never heard before, albeit clearly skewed. If you had enough time to prepare a counter-argument, what would it be like?

Eden

29

Could the allowance of blood fractions be curtailing the growth of the religion?

by Apognophos in

so, imagine that you're just a regular joe who's not familiar with the witnesses and is looking for the answers to life, the universe, and everything.

you hear a knock at your door.

before long, you are studying with a jehovah's witness.

EdenOne

Yeah, I too remember thinking that taking blood fractions was a ludicrous concession to weakling Witnesses: no doctrinal explanation could ever justify the change.

Eden

21

Period of time from crack to avalanche

by NeverKnew in

jw
friends

i know, people are very different and have different levels of holds to the organization, but i'm insanely curious about how long an exposure to ttatt may marinate before culminating into an action to research further.. from your earliest memory of a planted seed due to an event, challenge from another person, accidental website hit... whatever... (the crack) to the time the ttatt became a reality, (the avalanche), how much time expired?.

i guess we have to remember that everyone here is a success story and that for many, it may be never.. .

EdenOne

It took about two years for me.

I had my doubts before, especially with changing doctrines concerning the "end times prophecies" And how they only seemed to change to suit the relentless passing of time, and how did that compute with guideance from the Holy Spirit. Yet, I've always somehow swept things under the rug, because whatever wrongs there might be, Jehovah would correct them in due time.

But only when I was seriously challenged by two different people regarding accusations of paedophilia problems with the JW Organization I began to investigate further into other scandals. That led me to Robert King's website/forum, then to JWN. I've come a long way, really.

Yet, even then, I only left when I successfully took my entire household family out as well.

Eden

50

Governing Body at Bethel and their daily routine

by Tenacious in

i never had the privilege to serve at bethel .. therefore, community help is greatly appreciated friends.. do the gb members have their own living quarters separate from the average jw?.

does their "busy" schedule permit field service, if yes, how many hours a month?.

how long are their weekly wednesday meetings?.

EdenOne

My perception is that they don't care much about money - because they have no anxiety whatsoever about getting it, in the first place, since every possible material need they have is provided for - and they don't have the personal ambition to become wealthy men, as that would be too visible before the R&F, and it would endanger what they really care for - power over other people's lives. It's that power that drives the contributions to keep the organization going, which, in turn, allows them to be finantially provided for, which in turn .... it's a cycle. The trip that gets them high is really the power, the control.

Eden

51

Your favourite dog breed ...?

by LoveUniHateExams in

in an earlier thread, i mentioned that i wasn't a particularly doggy person but that my parents got a husky last year that i've come to regard as a kind of brother.. huskies superficially resemble wolves and for me it's been fun to compare and contrast husky and wolf behaviour.

huskies howl but rarely bark, and seem to have a strong prey drive and a strong pack instinct - a nod to their wild cousins.

this is why i love huskies, i think.. do you have a favourite dog breed and why?.

EdenOne

tim, what a beautiful dog.

Eden