Posts by EdenOne

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

You can't possibly assert anything about evidence or knowledge regarding a thing you can't define.

Except belief?

It's used by the WT quite often

Ah, the ex-JW flavor of ad hitlerium fallacy!

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

I understand the need that rationalists have to jump at anything that resembles theism. As put by Jeffrey Tayler in an article in Salon, rationalists feel they no longer should keep quiet about religious nonsense:

"nonbelievers are no longer keeping mum about the rank stupidity embodied in Christianity. A virgin birth? A rib-come-woman? A man walking on water? The vicarious redemption of “sin” through a cruel and unusual act of human sacrifice? All these fantasticalities offend thinking, sane individuals. No one should expect us to accept the truth of such fantasticalities or to allow dogma arising from them to determine discourse on how we live, which laws pass, and whom we marry, without fierce resistance."

Agreed. However, there are limits. Just as there should be intolerance to religious hate speech, there shouldn't be room for anti-religion hate speech. Plus, because rationalists tend to value education, exactitude and ethicals in higher regards than their religious fellow humans, they should be the ones that set a better track record when discussing these matters in a civil, thoughtful way.

Look! The proponent of this thread isn't attempting to tell you or anyone else how to live life; it's not about to pass any law that will affect your life; isn't indoctrinating anyone into a religion; isn't doing anything to discriminate people on the basis of religious belief. He's not even a theist, of all sins! So, tell me why the heck you feel so self-entitled to be rude to other people just because they hold a different view from yours? If you feel some crime is being committed against reason, the remedy is to reason, not to insult. If you feel that the discourse isn't honest, correct it with honesty. If you detect dogmas that don't merit immunity to disproof, fight dogmas with open-mindedness, not scorn. And surely, pick your opponents more wisely.

If reason is used to advance the enjoyment of life, I'm a rationalist. But if reason is but a flag, used merely to win debates and an excuse to be insulting to others, you're a disgrace to your own cause.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

Either you can't read or won't read, Viviane. Go back and read that it wasn't me that was asking for a definition of "god". That is the sort of thing that should be asked to a theist. It's nonsensical to be insistingly asking to a non-theist like me to define a god. It's stupid and obtuse. For the empth time, I don't know.

But I get it. You need a definition given by a theist so you can then debunk it. But when a non-theist asks you to logically explain how come your so-called absence of belief in deities that stems from lack of evidence for their existence is in itself different than a belief proper, what I observe is some sort of broken record, headless chicken attitude.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

Let's see Cofty work out from THAT definition. (if one can call it such)

After all, he expects such definition to attempt to answer to:

Does it interact with humans? Does it hear and answer prayers? In what way is the world different than if it didn't exist? Did it create the world? Did it create humans?

I don't see any of that in your definition. My take is that Cofty would classify that as:

Vague, vacuous nonsense.

Unless, of course, he would open an exception for you. But let's wait and see. Shouldn't take long now.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

I would classify those amongst "strong atheists". But I concede that it may be a different group altogether.

Eden

30

Tear down the whole of South Africa

by Louise in

jw
friends

there was a statue outside the rhodes university.

a 30 year old black student then threw his pooh on the statue and that got the ball rolling to pull the statue down.

the board of this university built also gives out burseries and grants to previously disadvantaged black south africans and not disadvantaged black south africans.. there has been a huge debate in the country and now the statue has been removed.

EdenOne

Racism is racism, no matter what color of skin of the one exercising it.

Eden

47

Apostasy Trial on YouTube - Undercover spycam part 1

by RayPublisher in

for only the second time in internet history, a video recording of a secret jehovah's witness apostasy trial has been published online on the jwstruggle youtube channel.

follow isaac's story here:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9rh6qux0o&feature=youtu.be.

EdenOne

WOW ! WOW ! WOW!

Elder - "Forget about 1914, forget about 1975, 1874 ... those are dates that are wordily history. Jehovah has got nothing to do with it."

Are these guys even serious?? Hypocrites!

"We don't go by C. T Russel"

But you still go by JF Rutherford, right?

"In 1914 Jehovah placed is royal Son upon his holy hill in Zion..." Watchtower 1932 Nov 1 p.325

Hypocrites, hypocrites, hypocrites, liars!

On a side note: Observe the ongoing trend to discard 1914 sometime in the future.

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

Evade the question as much as you want. The question stands. Do you refuse to answer?

Eden

47

Apostasy Trial on YouTube - Undercover spycam part 1

by RayPublisher in

for only the second time in internet history, a video recording of a secret jehovah's witness apostasy trial has been published online on the jwstruggle youtube channel.

follow isaac's story here:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9rh6qux0o&feature=youtu.be.

EdenOne

Just started watching and I'm already cringing. Having sat through an apostasy JC before, this brings bad memories and anger. I wonder where Isaac managed to disguise the camera??

Eden

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

EdenOne

"Sociologist Darren Sherkat researched the belief of Americans in a higher power. He based his research on data from 8,000 adults polled by the Chicago-based National Opinion Research Center between 1988 and 2000. Among his findings were that 8% stated "I don't believe in a personal god, but I do believe in a higher power of some kind."

So, this is a perfectly pertinent question. 8% of Americans believe in a "higher power" - some sort of non-personal god.

Eden