Posts by EdenOne

18

Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?

by pistolpete in

so it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.

the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.

just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.

EdenOne

Yep, every now and then (but it's becoming rarer), when things are looking very dire, I find myself mourning the loss of that sweet, but false hope, that some all-powerful, loving and righteous god would take action to correct the evils and restore harmony.

28

The Wwatchtower turning into a real laughing Stock

by Overrated in

jw
friends

over the years watchtower has turned into a real joke in the world scene.

with the lawsuits, downsizing and decreasing numbers.

what they use to be is gone and they will never recover the numbers they once had.

EdenOne

Back in the day, the Org absolutely thrived on so-called "opposition"...

The more I learn about the early days of Christianity, the more I see how christians hyped their fears of persecution as a tool for reinforcing their own faith, resolve and urge to proselytize. The accounts of “massive persecution” by Roman authorities have been greatly exaggerated by christian apologists like Eusebius of Caesarea and Tertulian, and martyrology became favorite literature among early christians; to the point that many exceedingly zealous christians thought that the only death worthy of a christian was that of a martyr. This caused that some christian apologists felt that they had to defend themselves against public opinion who thought they were suicidal.

JW’s mentality is hyped in a similar way to thrive on the idea of opposition and persecution. They can’t handle the general public’s indifference.

13

JW's getting creative (or desperate) to preach during the pandemic ....

by EdenOne in

so, there's this social game called second life.. there one creates an avatar and can lead a parallel life.

there's a bit of everything, from general environments to adult.

it can be a hub for creative people, it can be a magnet for creeps.

EdenOne

So, there's this social game called Second Life.

There one creates an avatar and can lead a parallel life. There's a bit of everything, from General environments to Adult. It can be a hub for creative people, it can be a magnet for creeps. Anything goes. Anyway, me and my wife play the game and I'm involved in the live music community there. It's one way to make new friendships and perform live during the pandemic.

And guess what ... ? I thought I'd never see the day, but yesterday I was going through the "Events" schedule, and I noticed a few entries that resonated something familiar:

Hmmmm. There were similar events with "lectures" themed "What is God's Kingdom?" and "What is God Like?". Soooo familiar. So I went to the advertised virtual location of the event. And ....voila!

Someone (it's a female profile) is getting very creative (or desperate) to count the hours for the monthly slip.

I wonder if the HQ knows anything about this.

I left a message asking if she will cover her head during the meeting if a male will be present ....

5

BRAZIL: Sexual abuse, Heresy & Social Control in Jehovah’s Witnesses (inteview)

by Antonio_Madaleno in

“it was like a house of cards that has collapsed,” says a former cult elder.. for 40 years of his life, antónio madaleno, born in portugal, was part of jehovah’s witnesses, which he defines as a “cult”.

he was just one year old when his mother went to the kingdom hall, as the jehovah’s witnesses’ places of worship are called.. after reaching the top of the jehovah’s witness hierarchy, becoming an elder, madaleno found himself in a situation where he began to address their heresies while his wife was pregnant in 2003.. “as is usual in these cases, the first concern of a jehovah’s witness is the question of the need for a blood transfusion,” he tells gospel prime, in an exclusive interview.. antónio madaleno says that this led him to research, study the bible and question the teachings of jehovah’s witnesses.

for the first time, he was using his mind and conscience to seek the truth about what he had learned at the kingdom hall, even though he considered himself an expert in the witnesses’ doctrines.. his research has led him to what he defines as “a house of cards that has collapsed”, as he claims that “it has resulted in many other researches and inquiries”.. “what i came to discover led me to lose all credibility and trust of the watchtower organization,” he says.. the former elder became what they define as an “apostate”, drifting away from associating with members of the cult and starting to speak out against what happens there, including crimes covered up by the leadership.

EdenOne

Great exposé, my friend!

56

JW Net and Politics

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

this site was and remains instrumental in assisting people that want to leave the jw's.. there has been political discussion here for some time now, a good couple of years and it makes me feel a little uneasy.

i just opened up the site for the first time in some weeks, of the 10 posts being discussed, 4 were by the same poster, about politics, promoting their right wing beliefs.. this has been the trend for some time now, the same name behind a peppering of posts stirring the right v left of politics.. i remain forever grateful to the site and it's founders simon & angharad, i appreciate that simon shares some of these these political beliefs.

it would be a shame to see the site evolve from a place for jw freedom of thought and escape, to political squabbling, that the world is frankly tired of right now.. just to clarify, politics is my hobby, whilst my friends read the football scores, i'm reading polling data.

EdenOne

Good points but after 3 minutes, enough.

I know, my bad. I should use Grammarly ...

That individual is a purveyor, not a consumer.

He takes both roles, actually. He takes cues from existing well known conspiracy theories, modifies them to suit his outlandish prophecies and then spreads the word. Again and again. I didn’t know that Mr. King posted here as “YouKnow”. Just had a sense of it ... yep ... it goes way back.

56

JW Net and Politics

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

this site was and remains instrumental in assisting people that want to leave the jw's.. there has been political discussion here for some time now, a good couple of years and it makes me feel a little uneasy.

i just opened up the site for the first time in some weeks, of the 10 posts being discussed, 4 were by the same poster, about politics, promoting their right wing beliefs.. this has been the trend for some time now, the same name behind a peppering of posts stirring the right v left of politics.. i remain forever grateful to the site and it's founders simon & angharad, i appreciate that simon shares some of these these political beliefs.

it would be a shame to see the site evolve from a place for jw freedom of thought and escape, to political squabbling, that the world is frankly tired of right now.. just to clarify, politics is my hobby, whilst my friends read the football scores, i'm reading polling data.

EdenOne

Eden, u r being censored lol

Nah, more like it just an annoying glitch with my aging iPad that's all. It seemed to "time out" my login if I took more than a few minutes to type a reply, nixing my comments box and its contents. I'm on my laptop now. Fingers crossed ...

I find it a lot better to just take the quotes over to the Notes app and compose a response there, and then copy it back when completed

That's a good approach, but I was already in bed and it was getting late, so ...zzz zzz zzz

Check out this thread, recent to this forum. Seems like the entire thing went down in a civilized manner.

I'm all for political debate, and I quite like it WHEN it's possible to do that in a civilized way, even when people strongly disagree on something. I can't watch debates that descend into ad hominem attacks, name calling, shouting, constant interrupting the others so they cannot expose their arguments, de-humanizing adversaries, throwing unfunded accusations up in the air, fake facts etc. It just sickens me, I'm definitely not good at it, and it's beneath me to debase myself to that level. The current sociological environment has become artificially edgy and crisp as a result of social media (and to a certain extent, traditional media) lending its users to deeper levels of ideological entrenchment and thus, intolerance, and that is showing here.

Discussing politics in a positive and meaningful way is not only possible, it's also desirable. However, this forum is (should be) mainly about helping people on their journey out of the Watchtower cult, and not a soapbox for promoting political views. For good or for worse, those who spent most of their lives inside the JW cult were educated to avoid debates and to just walk away when discussion gets heated or their ideas get challenged. Now, add that conditioned response to the "paranoia-of-the-evil-apostates-who-are-out-to-get-the-Witnesses-at-Satan's-bidding", and you'll see why that sort of political bickering here may be scaring people away.

If, by means of discussing Watchtower cult related issues, political ideas come to the fore, then it's open hunting season. But starting threads, even many threads, to merely provoke and taunt, floating innuendos or outright conspiracy theories, attacking political views that you dislike, using this forum as a political megaphone, thus flooding this forum with incendiary titles that have little to do with discussing matters related to the JW cult, it's frankly detrimental to the original purpose of this website.

I suggest that, if that kind of, say, "specialized discussion", is to be kept in this forum, there should be a special section for it, a section that should be open to anyone, but kept out of the forefront of the forum.

I have absolutely no idea what is on e-watchman. Never been there.

Oh by all means, humor me and go there waste 10 minutes of your life that you'll never get back. You'll get my point very quickly. If I had stumbled upon that website, with its present outlandish contents, when I began testing the waters to see what was outside of JWdom, I would quickly run back to the perceived "safety" of the Organization because that meets exactly the standard of what the fearmongers on the GB has been writing about "mentally ill apostates".

OK, so you "fear" that this site may be going down a similar path, of everything listed above. So I asked for an example of something on *this* site (see quote above) that is the basis for this fear.

Apparently, there's a bumper sticker going around that says "If you don't think that someone is plotting against you, then you're not paying attention". When one comes out of a cult whose main tenets are based on unproven conspiracy theories ("there's a universal controversy between God and the Devil, and you're implicated in it" ; "the devil is out to get you" ; "science that disproves the Bible is false, bad and does Satan's bidding"; "the entertainment industry is dominated by the devil"; "higher education is a satanic ruse to steer the youth away from God"; "beware of independent thinking, it's Satan puffing your pride"; "political agencies in this world dominated by Satan are plotting to attack organized religion soon, and we will be next"; "we need to preach, or else billions of people will die in Armageddon and their blood will be in our hands" .... do I need to continue?), then any conspiracy theory immediately raises red flags, because one knows too well how those ideas, counter-information, is used to manipulate fear and steer people in a certain direction. People a-critically adopt these ideas that seem to confirm their deepest inner fears as their own ideas, and then repeat them and amplify them in any given platform they have, because they need to spread the good (bad) news. It's brilliant, as it is terrifying. The only way this highway to hell stops is by each one of us develop their critical thinking abilities and stop becoming a resonating box for those who profit from the spreading of these ideas.

Conspiracy theories give people a way to make sense of a world that they struggle to understand. They offer a simple narrative that gives them back some control over the events ("aha! I figured this out. Now I won't be fooled anymore!") that otherwise they are powerless to influence. For example, a diagnosis of a serious illness that comes out of nowhere in you on someone close to you, may seem senseless. Why? Why? In some people, the explanation that pharmaceutical companies are inventing / spreading diseases so that they can profit by selling prescription drugs for them is paradoxically a more comforting explanation than, say, absolute randomness of a cell replication that went wrong. Because, in the first case, the individual has the delusion that it retains some degree of control over the narrative, as opposed to the latter, where the narrative is absolutely out of its control. Fear is one of life's greatest motivators, along with sex, power, and guilt.

And this behavior can be pathological, and here's my connection with the DSM reference that you seemed to take exception with. Are you familiar with the term "psychotism"? If you're not, I'm sure you'll hear about it more and more in the future, because it's beginning to trend among psychology researchers. Psychotism is a maladaptative pattern of thinking that is a core feature of what is usually referred to as "schizo-type personality disorder", that is in part characterized by "odd beliefs and magical thinking" and "paranoid ideation". These also tend to occur in people who suffer from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. It's, if you will, a milder form of full-blown psychosis, where the person loses adherence with reality (that happens in schizophrenia, for example), but it's more severely disjointed thinking than just belief in, say, a superstition. In a world where social media tends to group people of like-minded leanings, while shielding them from countering ideas, this pattern of thinking that stems out of anxiety and some level of immaturity in dealing with needs and emotions can spread like wildfire, feed into itself, and quickly become pathological and yes, some day it will really have its own DSM entry under the neurosis groups, I'm sure.

To be short, yes, I believe that individuals like "e-watchman" do suffer from a personality disorder that is yet to be formally named, but is emerging in scientific studies, They play into the hands of people who craft conspiracy theories, becoming their useful tools in the vital role of spreading and amplifying them. And any one of use is prone to become a victim of this, myself included. I know I was such a person while I was JW. Who can say I won't do that again about something else? Critical thinking skills are your best friend in this situation, but they won't offer full protection, and they can be overpowered by anxiety and fear, under the right exceptional circumstances. And, boy, do we live in exceptional circumstances these days!

How does this relate to this forum, this cherished website, that prompted my comments where I drew a parallel?

Try scrolling back to the last 100 topics that got discussed over this last two weeks. I counted at least 11 that were 100% political and not related to JW. And these past two weeks, once US elections were over and Biden was sworn in, there were much less engaging political topics. It's almost "quiet" in that front. That's 11% of content - again, in a "moderately quiet" time in the US politics alone. Now, those numbers have easily escalated to 30% to 40% during the controversial Trump presidency, where there was an abundance of extreme political topics for debate.

No political extremes (left or right) are exempt of fake facts and conspiracy theories, and a brief look at history will educate us on that, but in this day and time, it is definitely a right-wing feature the creation of fake facts and crafting of conspiracy theories. Unfortunately, the conservative political territory has become fertile soil for right-wing conspiracy theories because the world is changing at such a fast pace, that conservatives are scared at the pace of the change, they fear losing control over it, and thus are prone to see liberals (who tend to embrace change more easily) as enemies. The world needs both, that's my belief, to counterbalance each other. Right-wing conspiracy crafters are a case of the tail waging the dog. They steer the fears of the much broader conservative-minded group of people, so that they behave in a way that suits their agenda for power grab. And yes, liberals aren't immune to conspiracy theories either, just not in the same degree.

This website shouldn't be a soap box megaphone stall for political ideas of this sort, be it right-wing or left-wing or centrist or whatnot. Keep those political ideas for some other platform (go build your own website, participate in a specialized forum, use your FB, IG or Twitter account, get involved in like-minded instant messaging groups account if you must) but please refrain from doing that in here. This website is about HELPING people getting away from the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, and provide support for those who already left, helping them to grow up and grow out of it. To scare people away by overtly carrying into here the political tensions of "the world" is counter-productive. Those who are taking their early, frightful, baby steps outside the grasp of the Watchtower cult are likely to land here at that stage. And this website needs to provide a safe and friendly environment where people can learn, ask questions, rather than being intimidated.

I came here in a time where the discussions this forum were "dominated" (there should be a better word, but indulge me on that) by atheists. I took a helluva beating (thanks, Cofty ). I survived and in the end learned a lot from it. But that is because I have a personality trait (INTP - rational, logical thinker) that is only shared by 4% of the population at large. I am sure that other people at the same time retracted from their early exit endeavors because they got scared of the harsh treatment dispensed to believers at that time. That was detrimental for them. Most people coming out of the WT will not withstand the intimidation of political catfight on this forum, and that is a terrible missed opportunity.

Yes, I FEAR (I also have fears, see) that, if left unchecked, and nothing gets done to curb it, the use of this forum for political bickering and conspiracy theory spreading (unfortunately they seem to go together these days), the toxic environment may take over this forum, and that would be a terrible loss for everyone.

(Ugh, sorry for the lengthy post. I'll go back to my studio making music again)

56

JW Net and Politics

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

this site was and remains instrumental in assisting people that want to leave the jw's.. there has been political discussion here for some time now, a good couple of years and it makes me feel a little uneasy.

i just opened up the site for the first time in some weeks, of the 10 posts being discussed, 4 were by the same poster, about politics, promoting their right wing beliefs.. this has been the trend for some time now, the same name behind a peppering of posts stirring the right v left of politics.. i remain forever grateful to the site and it's founders simon & angharad, i appreciate that simon shares some of these these political beliefs.

it would be a shame to see the site evolve from a place for jw freedom of thought and escape, to political squabbling, that the world is frankly tired of right now.. just to clarify, politics is my hobby, whilst my friends read the football scores, i'm reading polling data.

EdenOne

This website is logging me off every time I attempt to write a longer reply, and I end up losing everything that I was writing. It’s a very annoying glitch, so I will try again tomorrow with something other than my ipad.

56

JW Net and Politics

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

this site was and remains instrumental in assisting people that want to leave the jw's.. there has been political discussion here for some time now, a good couple of years and it makes me feel a little uneasy.

i just opened up the site for the first time in some weeks, of the 10 posts being discussed, 4 were by the same poster, about politics, promoting their right wing beliefs.. this has been the trend for some time now, the same name behind a peppering of posts stirring the right v left of politics.. i remain forever grateful to the site and it's founders simon & angharad, i appreciate that simon shares some of these these political beliefs.

it would be a shame to see the site evolve from a place for jw freedom of thought and escape, to political squabbling, that the world is frankly tired of right now.. just to clarify, politics is my hobby, whilst my friends read the football scores, i'm reading polling data.

EdenOne

Ok, let’s engage on this. What do you feel is a good example of the thinking on this site that is toxic? An example that is worthy of an entry into the DSM one day?

Begin by reading what I actually wrote and not taking it out of context to suit your interpretation would be a good starting point for a discussion.

56

JW Net and Politics

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

this site was and remains instrumental in assisting people that want to leave the jw's.. there has been political discussion here for some time now, a good couple of years and it makes me feel a little uneasy.

i just opened up the site for the first time in some weeks, of the 10 posts being discussed, 4 were by the same poster, about politics, promoting their right wing beliefs.. this has been the trend for some time now, the same name behind a peppering of posts stirring the right v left of politics.. i remain forever grateful to the site and it's founders simon & angharad, i appreciate that simon shares some of these these political beliefs.

it would be a shame to see the site evolve from a place for jw freedom of thought and escape, to political squabbling, that the world is frankly tired of right now.. just to clarify, politics is my hobby, whilst my friends read the football scores, i'm reading polling data.

EdenOne

I concur that the heaviness of political (and hard right-wing at that) megaphone on this site has not only disheartened me from significant participation, but my well be scaring away others who might be testing the waters to see what the "apostates" are all about. It ain't so pretty.

Let me draw a parallel that I find interesting (and perhaps you may find it as well, or not, depending on your political leanings).

The other day I had a bit of trouble getting to sleep, and so, out of pure nostalgia and curiosity, I went on to check the first "apostate" website that I ever visited, even, to the best of my memory, before I joined this forum as an active member: Robert King's "e-watchman's post". My jaw dropped! When I first visited, the guy had recently published some book with his own prophetic interpretations - "Jehovah Himself Has Become King" - and was furiously denouncing the falsehoods and weaknesses of the Watchtower Society, and many things I read there were "aha!" moments for me. But then, as time went by, I began to notice a penchant for "One World" conspiracy theories, and it just started to stink, and I dropped it altogether, as my investigations had led me very far away from giving the Bible any credence. When I joined this forum, Robert King had been somewhat of a hot topic here, Pearl Doxsey and the "Anointed Witnesses" were the hot topic (where are they now? I see that they still publish on their website, but they apparently failed to take over the JW's by storm and interest in their movement seems to be waning since 2016 as indicated by fewer and fewer "questions from readers" being answered).

Anyways, fast forward perhaps 5 years since my last visit to "e-watchman". And now ... WOW! The site REEKS of the most absurd conspiracy theories bought straight from Infowars, QAnon and other such sources. It's a cesspool of right wing hatred intertwined with ludicrous and lunatic prophetic interpretations "a la carte" from the biblical prophets and Revelation, and (low and behold) even criticism and denunciation of the Watchtower is taking somewhat of a secondary role on the website. Just, wow! I'm sure this kind of pathological path has got to some day have some entry into the DSM manual of mental illnesses.

What I fear, is that such a valuable resource such as this forum, may be going, slowly but surely, into the same slippery slope territory.

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

EdenOne

I got my a$$ kicked in here many times, and I am thankful, because, hard as it was to get repeatedly challenged on my deep seated beliefs, it finally shook the theism out of my system. (Mind you, I still don't call myself atheist; rather, agnostic and apatheist. That's just my zeitgeist). But yes, it was through some bitter catfight here that FORCED ME TO GET OUT OF MY COMFORT ZONE, and question, well, everything.

I only wish it had happened many years sooner, when I could have altered the course of my life in a more significant way. But, like someone said here, I wasn't ready then. I had all my adulthood since I became autonomous to think for myself, and yet I chose daily to forfeit that ability and surrender my thinking to an evil organization. I have only myself to blame for staying stupid for so long. I was duped, yes, but It's not like I was in a window-less dungeon. I could have looked outside.