Posts by EdenOne

14

What kind of literary device is this?

by EdenOne in

i know there's a name for this technique but i need a name, nonetheless.. if i say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits.

and then i say: person a is an apostate.

then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with person a. but i can say: i never said person a was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc.

EdenOne

Well the "apostate" is in itself a created stereotype:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

Then come several syllogisms:

First:

a) All apostates hate Jehovah;

b) You must hate those who hate Jehovah (Psalm 139:21)

c) Therefore, you must hate apostates.

-----------------------------

Second:

a) An apostate is someone who becomes a defector from the faith.

b) You have defected from the faith by dissociating yourself.

c) Therefore, you're an apostate.

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Third:

a) Independent thinking is dangerous because it threatens unity;

b) Apostates fell for independent thinking.

c) You're displaying independent thinking by criticizing the ways of the Organization;

d) Therefore, you're becoming an apostate, and you're a threat to the congregation.

-------------------------------

Fourth:

a) Apostates do Satan's bidding;

b) Satan wants to eliminate the the Jeovah's Witnesses;

c) Therefore, the goal of apostates is the elimination of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

-------------------------------

Sixth

a) All apostates are liars and deceivers;

b) Jehovah's people shun lies and deception;

c) Therefore, never listen to apostates' arguments.

--------------------------------

Seventh

a) The Bible says that those who argue about words are "mentally diseased";

b) Apostates make arguments about words, definitions, doctrines, prophecies.

c) Therefore, apostates are "mentally diseased".

------------------------------

Eight

a) Apostates disagree with the Organization.

c) Apostates are evil, disgraceful, dirty, satanic, selfish, ungrateful, atheist; driven by resentment; they should be hated; they deserve death. (Stereotype)

b) If you disagree with the Organization, you're an apostate. (Stereotype)

and so on and so on.

In these examples, what are the logical fallacies?

14

What kind of literary device is this?

by EdenOne in

i know there's a name for this technique but i need a name, nonetheless.. if i say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits.

and then i say: person a is an apostate.

then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with person a. but i can say: i never said person a was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc.

EdenOne

I think cyberjesus got it closer.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

In fact, association fallacy coupled with ad hominem attack.

thank you

41

Have you been vaccinated? Have you had any side effects?

by LoveUniHateExams in

jw
friends

hi all.. i'm 42 years old.

i have had two jabs of the oxford-astrazeneca vaccine.. after my first jab i experienced flu-like symptoms - shivering, wanted to lie down in a dark room, etc.. i experienced no side effects after my second shot.. how about you?.

how many jabs have you had?.

EdenOne

49 and fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

First jab: Local muscular pain on the jab site (2 Days); on the second day started with bouts of extreme tiredness lasting about two hours each, several times a day, during two weeks. Then it faded off.

Second jab, one month later: Local muscular pain on the jab site (2 Days); the day after had one day with bouts of extreme tiredness; on the second day had a respiratory issue that seemed to combine asthma with bronchitis that started with a throat itch, and made me cough and have some shortness of breath. After three long weeks, it started to fade off, but still haven't fully recovered from some mild shortness of breath. It's not too dissimilar to respiratory issues that I usually have as a result of allergies, but this one didn't evolve into sinusitis and didn't respond as usual to anti-histamines.

After the second jab had to do two Covid tests for professional reasons and they came back negative.

14

What kind of literary device is this?

by EdenOne in

i know there's a name for this technique but i need a name, nonetheless.. if i say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits.

and then i say: person a is an apostate.

then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with person a. but i can say: i never said person a was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc.

EdenOne

Can you help me here?

I know there's a name for this technique but I need a name, nonetheless.

If I say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits. And then I say: Person A is an apostate. Then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with Person A. But I can say: I never said Person A was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc

This literally device / psychological technique has a name. But what is it?

34

STUDY ARTICLE When a Loved One Leaves Jehovah

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower—study edition | september 2021. study article 39. when a loved one leaves jehovah.

2 think how heartbroken jehovah must have been when members of his own angelic family turned their back on him!

(jude 6) and imagine how hurt he was at seeing his beloved people, the israelites, rebel against him time and again.

EdenOne

The picture is manipulation art at its finest. Notice how they subtly conflate leaving "Jehovah" with "leaving the family".

The person leaving the Organization is in this way portrayed as someone cruel, who can leave his wife and children. The horror it puts in the hearts of JW wives and children: If daddy leaves Jehovah, he will then leave us too.

It's wicked manipulation. These guys are just wicked evil manipulators. Nauseating.

8

HELP NEEDED: In publications, reference to suffering due to DF/DS

by EdenOne in

hello everyone.. i need your help again.. please point me to instances in the publications of the watchtower (video links also valuable) where there is evidence of the watchtower's awareness that shunning inflicts suffering / damage to the excommunicated and to family members, friends, fellow witnesses, friends .... .... or that shunning is designed to cause distress and suffering to the excommunicated (with the purpose to hammer him/her back into submission).. .... or that shunning treatment is objectively and purposely a differentiated treatment vis a vis to what treatment is given to unbelievers in general.. i need to be able to locate those publications in the wol, and then find the portuguese version of it, to then print.. thank you in advance for your help.

.

EdenOne

SBF, I would disagree on the laxing of disfellowshipping pursuit. I have observed that, especially after publishing the brochure "Return to Jehovah" there has been a deliberate effort to reach out for inactives and pressure them to come back or "take a stand" for or against the Organization. This seems to be driven by pressure from Circuit Overseers. They want congregations to purge the unproductive who are now regarded as bad examples and potential apostate material. As a result I've seen more disfellowshipped, not less.

But I would agree with you - there appears to exist a growing perception that disfellowshipping process has little fairness to it.

8

HELP NEEDED: In publications, reference to suffering due to DF/DS

by EdenOne in

hello everyone.. i need your help again.. please point me to instances in the publications of the watchtower (video links also valuable) where there is evidence of the watchtower's awareness that shunning inflicts suffering / damage to the excommunicated and to family members, friends, fellow witnesses, friends .... .... or that shunning is designed to cause distress and suffering to the excommunicated (with the purpose to hammer him/her back into submission).. .... or that shunning treatment is objectively and purposely a differentiated treatment vis a vis to what treatment is given to unbelievers in general.. i need to be able to locate those publications in the wol, and then find the portuguese version of it, to then print.. thank you in advance for your help.

.

EdenOne

Thank you for the articles you've pointed out so far. They will certainly be useful.

I have a vague memory of an article that mentioned someone who was disfellowshipped; that while we was being shunned by family he experienced loss and even suicidal thoughts (?); and the agony was such that he longed to be reinstated, which he was (the article put a positive spin on the psychological suffering). I made several searches, but came back empty.

8

HELP NEEDED: In publications, reference to suffering due to DF/DS

by EdenOne in

hello everyone.. i need your help again.. please point me to instances in the publications of the watchtower (video links also valuable) where there is evidence of the watchtower's awareness that shunning inflicts suffering / damage to the excommunicated and to family members, friends, fellow witnesses, friends .... .... or that shunning is designed to cause distress and suffering to the excommunicated (with the purpose to hammer him/her back into submission).. .... or that shunning treatment is objectively and purposely a differentiated treatment vis a vis to what treatment is given to unbelievers in general.. i need to be able to locate those publications in the wol, and then find the portuguese version of it, to then print.. thank you in advance for your help.

.

EdenOne

Hello everyone.

I need your help again.

Please point me to instances in the publications of the Watchtower (video links also valuable) where there is evidence of the Watchtower's awareness that shunning inflicts suffering / damage to the excommunicated and to family members, friends, fellow Witnesses, friends ...

.... or that shunning is DESIGNED to cause distress and suffering to the excommunicated (with the purpose to hammer him/her back into submission).

.... or that shunning treatment is objectively and purposely a differentiated treatment vis a vis to what treatment is given to unbelievers in general.

I need to be able to locate those publications in the WOL, and then find the Portuguese version of it, to then print.

Thank you in advance for your help.

6

Another shocking tidbit from the "Douglas Walsh" trial of 1954.

by EdenOne in

i'm reviewing the entire transcript of the douglas walsh case, and found this shocking bit that normally doesn't come up in the search engines, but it should:.

pages 370-375. hayden cooper covington on the stand:.

q: “in your experience of your own congregation in new york, did you have children there of eleven or twelve being baptized?”.

EdenOne

Douglas Walsh had been baptized at 12 years and three months, appointed regular pioneer at 15, appointed Company Servant at the Dumbart congregation before he completed 18.

I suspect he was "groomed" to become the perfect guinea pig test case for the Watchtower in the UK.

And, in the end, the WTS lost the case, lost the appeal, and lost the final appeal to the House of Lords as well.

6

Another shocking tidbit from the "Douglas Walsh" trial of 1954.

by EdenOne in

i'm reviewing the entire transcript of the douglas walsh case, and found this shocking bit that normally doesn't come up in the search engines, but it should:.

pages 370-375. hayden cooper covington on the stand:.

q: “in your experience of your own congregation in new york, did you have children there of eleven or twelve being baptized?”.

EdenOne

I'm reviewing the entire transcript of the Douglas Walsh case, and found this shocking bit that normally doesn't come up in the search engines, but it should:

Pages 370-375. Hayden Cooper Covington on the stand:

Q: “In your experience of your own congregation in New York, did you have children there of eleven or twelve being baptized?”

A: “Oh yes, I would agree with that instantly.”

Q: “Was that a common feature?”

A: “Yes”

[…]

Q: “In your experience, you had children younger than eleven?”

A: “Yes, I think I would say yes on that. (…) The parent takes responsibility for that child, and the parent, of course, knows that if a person takes the oath, that is to say, when I say oath I mean the Covenant obligation to serve Jehovah, and he does not keep it, it means death, so it must be a person who has the heart willingness and the maturity to understand what this obligation carries with it, otherwise a child may grow out of the Covenant, if he did not understand it, and disobey it.”

[…]

Q: “And you do ordain and baptize some younger than 11 or 12?”

A: “That is true (…)”

Q: “Have you any recollection of the youngest child baptized in New York?”

A: “Personally, of my own knowledge, I do not know of anyone under the age of 8 or 9 who has been baptized. I would say 8 would be the youngest as far as I know.”

Q: “At that stage am I right you may have a child of as tender years of 8 or 9 made a full member of Jehovah’s Witnesses and subject to the penalties of breach of Covenant?”

A: “That is right, but again I say that is an exceptional case”.

[…]

Q: “Let me ask you this straight question. Do you really think it accords with Christ’s teachings to have that sanction over the head of a child for failing, if he did, to stand by the beliefs promulgated about the Second Coming and Armageddon and the theocratic organization?”

A: “If the child understood, which he must before he is baptized, then he stands on the same footing as an adult. Now, the reason that we state this is that it is supported in Scripture. You read in Ezekiel where the Jehovah God tells the angel to go through the city and to destroy both young and old men and women and little children, and this is pictured at Armageddon, so there is no getting around it regardless of how seemingly harsh it may appear. The fact of the matter is, it is the judgment of God and we cannot change the Almighty God or His judgements.”

-------------

So, death to small children who breach a Covenant [i.e. baptism] they were forced into by their parents and which they cannot fully understand? Yes, by all means, said Covington, because, you know, Jehovah.