Posts by EdenOne

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

EdenOne

"25. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are one of few religious organisations which have an internal disciplinary process which can lead to the expulsion of members. The internal disciplinary processes of the Jehovah’s Witnesses continue to use a rule of corroborative evidence known outside the community as ‘the two‐witness rule’, whereby in the absence of a confession the evidence of two material witnesses is required to establish an allegation, which can then lead to disfellowship for the purposes of internal discipline. The rule is not intended to be a safeguarding measure. Nevertheless, it has no place in any response to child sexual abuse and fails to reflect the reality that by its very nature child sexual abuse
is most often perpetrated in the absence of witnesses. The rule’s capacity to cause harm to victims and survivors of child sexual abuse is clear. We have received first‐hand evidence
of this harm. As it presently operates, the Jehovah’s Witnesses internal disciplinary process for disfellowshipping members bears no relationship to how sexual crime happens. The continuing use of this rule shows a disregard of the seriousness of the crimes involved and their impact on individuals. It also lacks compassion for the victim, and serves to protect the perpetrator."

Page 115 btw

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/26895/view/child-protection-religious-organisations-settings-investigation-report-september-2021.pdf

13

Don't take my booze!

by David.L.Henson in

jw
friends

a direct confirmation that judge joseph rutherford, 2nd president of the watchtower organization, had a weak spot for good whisky, can be found in the following hilarious watch tower article.. the u.s. congress had passed the spirit prohibition law, and the judge was absolutely furious that these "servants of satan" tried to take his booze away.. the watch tower, which according to fred franz had jehovah as editor during these days, directly stated that christians could not "participate in" such a prohibition.

in other words, they had to smuggle and drink booze to be loyal to god.

the jws are unfortunately a much more boring sect these days.. the watchtower, november 1, 1924prohibition.

EdenOne

Most amusing trope, considering that Rutherford was a known alcoholic who had Watchtower employees smuggling booze from Canada to the US along with literature to satisfy his indulgence.

27

Lloyd Evans keeps doing parts on how the JWs are guilty of follwing the bible.

by mickbobcat in

i have been watching evans videos for a while.

he keeps attacking the cult for following the bible.

women are to be subservient to men.

EdenOne

I think that criticism of the Bible is fair, if made with some restraint and respect for deep seated feelings of religious people. A book that is styled to be God's word should be met with intense scrutiny as the claim of divine authorship is so great, that great evidence is demanded as proof. As I discovered, the Bible quickly gets debunked on a number of grounds. And yet there are undoubtedly some bits to it that carry some valid wisdom so, it shouldn't be soiled too lightly.

It is an immensely valuable document from a sociological, anthropological and historical point of view, and so interesting to analyze even for a non-believer. Having said that ... It was only when I stopped idolizing the Bible or read it with devotional lenses that I was able to move on with my life after mourning the loss of my JW faith.

14

What kind of literary device is this?

by EdenOne in

i know there's a name for this technique but i need a name, nonetheless.. if i say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits.

and then i say: person a is an apostate.

then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with person a. but i can say: i never said person a was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc.

EdenOne

Well the "apostate" is in itself a created stereotype:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

Then come several syllogisms:

First:

a) All apostates hate Jehovah;

b) You must hate those who hate Jehovah (Psalm 139:21)

c) Therefore, you must hate apostates.

-----------------------------

Second:

a) An apostate is someone who becomes a defector from the faith.

b) You have defected from the faith by dissociating yourself.

c) Therefore, you're an apostate.

----------------------------

Third:

a) Independent thinking is dangerous because it threatens unity;

b) Apostates fell for independent thinking.

c) You're displaying independent thinking by criticizing the ways of the Organization;

d) Therefore, you're becoming an apostate, and you're a threat to the congregation.

-------------------------------

Fourth:

a) Apostates do Satan's bidding;

b) Satan wants to eliminate the the Jeovah's Witnesses;

c) Therefore, the goal of apostates is the elimination of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

-------------------------------

Sixth

a) All apostates are liars and deceivers;

b) Jehovah's people shun lies and deception;

c) Therefore, never listen to apostates' arguments.

--------------------------------

Seventh

a) The Bible says that those who argue about words are "mentally diseased";

b) Apostates make arguments about words, definitions, doctrines, prophecies.

c) Therefore, apostates are "mentally diseased".

------------------------------

Eight

a) Apostates disagree with the Organization.

c) Apostates are evil, disgraceful, dirty, satanic, selfish, ungrateful, atheist; driven by resentment; they should be hated; they deserve death. (Stereotype)

b) If you disagree with the Organization, you're an apostate. (Stereotype)

and so on and so on.

In these examples, what are the logical fallacies?

14

What kind of literary device is this?

by EdenOne in

i know there's a name for this technique but i need a name, nonetheless.. if i say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits.

and then i say: person a is an apostate.

then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with person a. but i can say: i never said person a was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc.

EdenOne

I think cyberjesus got it closer.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

In fact, association fallacy coupled with ad hominem attack.

thank you

41

Have you been vaccinated? Have you had any side effects?

by LoveUniHateExams in

jw
friends

hi all.. i'm 42 years old.

i have had two jabs of the oxford-astrazeneca vaccine.. after my first jab i experienced flu-like symptoms - shivering, wanted to lie down in a dark room, etc.. i experienced no side effects after my second shot.. how about you?.

how many jabs have you had?.

EdenOne

49 and fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

First jab: Local muscular pain on the jab site (2 Days); on the second day started with bouts of extreme tiredness lasting about two hours each, several times a day, during two weeks. Then it faded off.

Second jab, one month later: Local muscular pain on the jab site (2 Days); the day after had one day with bouts of extreme tiredness; on the second day had a respiratory issue that seemed to combine asthma with bronchitis that started with a throat itch, and made me cough and have some shortness of breath. After three long weeks, it started to fade off, but still haven't fully recovered from some mild shortness of breath. It's not too dissimilar to respiratory issues that I usually have as a result of allergies, but this one didn't evolve into sinusitis and didn't respond as usual to anti-histamines.

After the second jab had to do two Covid tests for professional reasons and they came back negative.

14

What kind of literary device is this?

by EdenOne in

i know there's a name for this technique but i need a name, nonetheless.. if i say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits.

and then i say: person a is an apostate.

then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with person a. but i can say: i never said person a was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc.

EdenOne

Can you help me here?

I know there's a name for this technique but I need a name, nonetheless.

If I say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits. And then I say: Person A is an apostate. Then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with Person A. But I can say: I never said Person A was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc

This literally device / psychological technique has a name. But what is it?

34

STUDY ARTICLE When a Loved One Leaves Jehovah

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower—study edition | september 2021. study article 39. when a loved one leaves jehovah.

2 think how heartbroken jehovah must have been when members of his own angelic family turned their back on him!

(jude 6) and imagine how hurt he was at seeing his beloved people, the israelites, rebel against him time and again.

EdenOne

The picture is manipulation art at its finest. Notice how they subtly conflate leaving "Jehovah" with "leaving the family".

The person leaving the Organization is in this way portrayed as someone cruel, who can leave his wife and children. The horror it puts in the hearts of JW wives and children: If daddy leaves Jehovah, he will then leave us too.

It's wicked manipulation. These guys are just wicked evil manipulators. Nauseating.

8

HELP NEEDED: In publications, reference to suffering due to DF/DS

by EdenOne in

hello everyone.. i need your help again.. please point me to instances in the publications of the watchtower (video links also valuable) where there is evidence of the watchtower's awareness that shunning inflicts suffering / damage to the excommunicated and to family members, friends, fellow witnesses, friends .... .... or that shunning is designed to cause distress and suffering to the excommunicated (with the purpose to hammer him/her back into submission).. .... or that shunning treatment is objectively and purposely a differentiated treatment vis a vis to what treatment is given to unbelievers in general.. i need to be able to locate those publications in the wol, and then find the portuguese version of it, to then print.. thank you in advance for your help.

.

EdenOne

SBF, I would disagree on the laxing of disfellowshipping pursuit. I have observed that, especially after publishing the brochure "Return to Jehovah" there has been a deliberate effort to reach out for inactives and pressure them to come back or "take a stand" for or against the Organization. This seems to be driven by pressure from Circuit Overseers. They want congregations to purge the unproductive who are now regarded as bad examples and potential apostate material. As a result I've seen more disfellowshipped, not less.

But I would agree with you - there appears to exist a growing perception that disfellowshipping process has little fairness to it.

8

HELP NEEDED: In publications, reference to suffering due to DF/DS

by EdenOne in

hello everyone.. i need your help again.. please point me to instances in the publications of the watchtower (video links also valuable) where there is evidence of the watchtower's awareness that shunning inflicts suffering / damage to the excommunicated and to family members, friends, fellow witnesses, friends .... .... or that shunning is designed to cause distress and suffering to the excommunicated (with the purpose to hammer him/her back into submission).. .... or that shunning treatment is objectively and purposely a differentiated treatment vis a vis to what treatment is given to unbelievers in general.. i need to be able to locate those publications in the wol, and then find the portuguese version of it, to then print.. thank you in advance for your help.

.

EdenOne

Thank you for the articles you've pointed out so far. They will certainly be useful.

I have a vague memory of an article that mentioned someone who was disfellowshipped; that while we was being shunned by family he experienced loss and even suicidal thoughts (?); and the agony was such that he longed to be reinstated, which he was (the article put a positive spin on the psychological suffering). I made several searches, but came back empty.