Posts by EdenOne

23

Introduction

by joao in

jw
friends

i'm joão, from portugal.. i was a jw for about 30 years but i've stopped associating with them for about two years now.

and, lately, i've decided to dig deep and research about this cult!

oh boy!

EdenOne

Olá João, bem-vindo a este fórum.

Welcome to this forum, from another fellow Portuguese citizen in Portugal.

I also exited before my zealous JW wife did, and what I can say is that everyone is different, and what works for some, doesn't work for others. You know your spouse better than anyone else in here, so work with that knowledge. In general, proceed with caution, because if preserving your marriage and family is important to you, you may want to take baby steps. Keep in mind that their pre-programmed brain can at any time turn against you and choose the cult instead, if they feel overwhelmed. Carefully chosen questions that arouse thinking mechanisms are usually a good way, especially if you don't make it sound as if you already have mentally checked out. The temptation to spill it all out and "preach" is great, but patience is paramount here. Also, keep an eye on external influences - your spouse may confide in another JW what's going on and they may try to undermine you and even turn her against you.

R.

13

MY GOSPEL

by pistolpete in

has anyone ever read the new testament- critically- and not theologically?

by theologically i mean not reading the bible with the intention of understanding the nature of god and religious truth.

but instead, reading the bible by analyzing only the facts of what is written, in an unbiased frame of mind to pull out what is actually happening in the written stories.. first of all, if you were to read the nt in chronological order, paul’s 7 authentic letters would come before the gospels of matthew, mark, luke, and john.

EdenOne

Also, consider the fact that Mark doesn't seem to know anything about a resurrection story ... in fact, this was so shocking and embarrassing that some scribes took it up upon themselves to add a spurious "short conclusion" and a "long conclusion" to Mark, in order to at least make it seem that Mark knew something about it.

Also, about Paul and his feud with the apostles in Jerusalem ... I have the feeling that Paul could easily have considered that the apostles framed him in the Jerusalem Temple episode ... that the good (in fact, terrible) advise they gave him order to prove his jewish orthodoxy obedience to the Law was in fact a ruse to have him arrested or killed by an angry mob (remember who started the riot? The "Jews from Asia", possibly the same people whom Paul had unsuccessfully attempted to convert in Ephesus - Acts 19:8-10) Even if it wasn't that the intention of the apostles (I think it's not entirely impossible, if they really thought he was an apostate, in which case they were in agreement with orthodox Jews), at the very least Paul could see the chain of events in that way, and that can explain the extremely harsh tone he employed in some of his letters to refer to the apostles and the "jewish Jesus movement" followers as opposed to his Christ movement followers. (Compare to Phillipians 3:2, where Paul calls these "dogs")

17

Letter from Mother: "...go right ahead on death's road and take your kids with you."

by silentbuddha in

so my jw father is sick.

my mother uses the opportunity to try and preach to my 16 year old daughter.

i simply told my mother to: "please refrain from trying to lure *my daughter* in with jehovah's witness questioning.

EdenOne

There’s a huge difference between telling a fundamentalist parent to refrain from luring a grandchild into her religion, and an institutionally mandated all-encompassing shunning fueled by religious hatred.

It’s dishonest to conflate both situations as if they’re even comparable. They aren't two sides of a coin flip. There’s no ethical dilemma here.

8

Installation of Yahweh alone

by Doug Mason in

i have released my latest study for your criticism, corrections, and advice.. “installation of yahweh alone”.

yahweh’s journey from local warrior god assigned to weather and storms to his installation as the universal deity -- and the people who put him there.. available at: https://www.academia.edu/s/e1d2a5b016?source=link .

doug .

EdenOne

Doug, I wonder if you have explored the possibilities offered by 1 Kings 20:23, which is a text that always intrigued me.

Here the Arameans think that the "gods of Israel" (Elohe, plural) are "gods of the hills", and have no power over the plains or valleys. Where does that perception comes from? What can it tell us about the origins of Yahweh?

New International Version
Meanwhile, the officials of the king of Aram advised him, “Their gods are gods of the hills. That is why they were too strong for us. But if we fight them on the plains, surely we will be stronger than they.

15

What Do They Have in Common?: Covington/ Muhammed Ali / Disfellowship policy

by Terry in

covington / muhammed ali / disfellowship (what do they have in common?

)“hayden c. covington, one of the most influential figures in the history of first amendment law.

beyond the numerous first amendment cases he argued or co-argued in the supreme court, he also prevailed on behalf of the witnesses in over “100 decisions handed down by various state supreme courts, and .

EdenOne

Good point, Earnest!

Interestingly, in the 1956 article, it says that a JW would never lie under oath and instead should remain silent and face the consequences. In the following articles, I believe that was dropped.

15

What Do They Have in Common?: Covington/ Muhammed Ali / Disfellowship policy

by Terry in

covington / muhammed ali / disfellowship (what do they have in common?

)“hayden c. covington, one of the most influential figures in the history of first amendment law.

beyond the numerous first amendment cases he argued or co-argued in the supreme court, he also prevailed on behalf of the witnesses in over “100 decisions handed down by various state supreme courts, and .

EdenOne

Terry,

The first use of "theocratic warfare" doctrine that I'm aware of is from 1957:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1957327?q=theocratic+warfare&p=par

"Use Theocratic War Stategy"

The Walsh Trial depositions happened in 1954. After appeal(s), the unfavorable final ruling of the case by the Supreme Court of the UK came out in 1956. By then, the Judge (can't remember his name now, had to look it up) called the Watchtower a totalitarian organization.

15

What Do They Have in Common?: Covington/ Muhammed Ali / Disfellowship policy

by Terry in

covington / muhammed ali / disfellowship (what do they have in common?

)“hayden c. covington, one of the most influential figures in the history of first amendment law.

beyond the numerous first amendment cases he argued or co-argued in the supreme court, he also prevailed on behalf of the witnesses in over “100 decisions handed down by various state supreme courts, and .

EdenOne

Good read, Terry.

It helps to explain the reversal of policy regarding excommunication.

Also, Terry, I have a gut feeling that it was the unmitigated disaster of the blunt sincerity during the Walsh Trial depositions by Fred Franz and Covington that led to the adoption of the "theocratic warfare" doctrine in 1957. Does it make sense to you?

9

Australian jw org responds to Govt. pressure to participate in sexual abuse redress scheme.

by Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice. in

jw
friends

reported in the news today - let's hope victims are duly compensated for their suffering and the org is taken to the cleaners.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-10/jehovahs-witnesses-sign-up-to-sexual-abuse-redress-scheme/100449204.

cheeses - the wholly holey holy one..

EdenOne

Ok, I was able to find a retraction from News Corp regarding that report ....

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5720653717045248/australia-selling-off-assets?page=3

9

Australian jw org responds to Govt. pressure to participate in sexual abuse redress scheme.

by Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice. in

jw
friends

reported in the news today - let's hope victims are duly compensated for their suffering and the org is taken to the cleaners.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-10/jehovahs-witnesses-sign-up-to-sexual-abuse-redress-scheme/100449204.

cheeses - the wholly holey holy one..

EdenOne

Can you lead me to a verifiable source please?

51

PIMO elder

by Reservations in

jw
friends

i’m reservations, pimo elder.

i’m in no position to leave the organisation, maybe some people will see that as weak or whatever, but we have to all go down our own path in life.. i would like to be able to wake people up in my congregation, how do you think best to do this?

any ideas?.

EdenOne

As an Elder, you have access. To information, to documents.

Document yourself with everything you possibly can. Anything that helps prove discriminating policies, suspicious transactions, coverups policies, changes in beliefs, etc. Elders have access to information not available to common rank-and-file. Use that access. It may prove very valuable at a later stage.

If possible, tactfully, incentive people in your congregation to be open-minded about information sources. Encourage people to be receptive to sources outside the Watchtower publications (don't ever mention WHY). But this opens a backdoor in people's minds. If they will use it or not, who knows, But it's there.

Cast doubts about the Slave's ability to correctly interpret Scriptures, by pointing out many doctrine changes in the past - but always putting a positive spin on it, like, how they are humble and willing to admit that they were wrong, or how they are always trying to let the scriptures guide them. At some point, people will start asking themselves why an organization supposedly led by God himself has to change doctrine so many times. Couldn't God get it right the first time around?

Then, when you can no longer help people anymore without attracting negative attention, resign from Elder. Don't give much explanations, say that you're burned out, depressed, whatever. They will try to squeeze you for more information (such as determining if you're a covert apostate, or if you have committed some sin secretly), but don't crack under pressure.

When you feel ready, fade out. Or disassociate. For your sanity's sake. Living a life you don't believe in anymore is truly damaging for your mental health.