EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  9

  Pinker & Wieseltier on scientism

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  steven pinker, one of my favorite current thinkers, has given his perspective on "scientism" (or the lack thereof) in what turned out to be a short debate with leon wieseltier.

  the articles contain too many points to summarize here, but pinker point out some obvious issues with the word "scientism" as it is currently used, discuss what science is (and offer a positive definition of scientism) as well as what he percieve to be an unnecesary resistance towards science from *some* parts of humanities.

  the articles are quite long but easily the most interesting thing i have read on these subjects this year; they also show what happends when one as wieseltier bring rethoric to a knife-fight with a first rate intellect.

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  EdenOne

  Very interesting reading - thank you.

  Eden
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  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

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  EdenOne

  SoP,

  It's most relevant that God put two trees in Eden, the tree of Wisdom and the Tree of Life. It's also relevant that God only made express mention prohibition towards the Tree of Wisdom, while no such stern warning is given towards the Tree of Life - and yet, God puts no guards around the Tree of Wisdom, while putting guards and a revolving sword to keep A & E at bay from the Tree of Life. What do you make of it?

  In my opinion, the order on which the trees are presented has significance. It appears that you can only access eternal life after you have gained wisdom.

  Makes no sense to reason that God has put the Tree of Wisdom in the garden as a test to Adam and Eve. That goes against the principle described in James 1:13 -"God doesn't tempt anyone [with evil]". Rather, God is described as the source of "every good and perfect gift" (James 1:17). That tree was there because at some point God would allow that couple to eat its fruit, and gain wisdom - wisdom that would prepare them step into a higher level of life, the spiritual life. After that, they would be ready to eat from the Tree of Life, marking their passage from the material world into the spiritual realm, where they would enjoy eternal life.

  (Turns out that Satan told Eve a half truth - by eating from the Tree of Wisdon, they would become "like God". What he didn't mention was, in doing so in disregard of God's orders, they were severing the spiritual bond of sonship with God and their access to the spiritual realm altogether. Who knows? Maybe Satan was jealous that God had granted inferior creatures the possibility to raise to spiritual beings status, and he decided to take matters into his own hands and screw God's plans).

  Without wisdom, they could eat as many times as they might from the Tree of Life - they just wouldn't live forever here on earth. God wasn't concerned with keeping them from access to the Tree of Life until the moment they ate from the Tree of Wisdom. Why would God be worried that they would take the fruit from the Tree of Life and live forever if they had already sinned and therefore were to die anyway? What do you make of that also?

  Eden
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  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
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  EdenOne

  s & r

  I didn't call anyone 'close minded', let alone everyone. I'm enjoying this, as you put it, "out of the box" discussion. I want to see how far can I stretch my speculation all the while still be within the boundaries of the Holy Book, that's all. And you know, even with much flaws, as competent people can point out, there is a possible alternative interpretation to the traditional one regarding Genesis, and I'm just entertaining thoughts about it. I'm not worried to present it in a harmonious, coherent way, I know these are random thoughts.

  Why do you think this doesn't belong in a religious forum? Does "Lou Reed RIP" or "I got a problem with Sound Forge Pro" sound more fitting?

  Eden
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  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  EdenOne

  And yet you point out how fraught with peril the translation process itself is, which only undermines the sheer folly of believing that a God is controlling the process of inspiration, nevermind translation.

  The only assumption you can make is regarding the translation, and perhaps that written records could have been better kept. You cannot make fair assumptions regarding inspiration based solely on a problematic translation.

  Eden
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  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
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  EdenOne

  What you are offering is a train wreck of disconnected and random ideas.

  Considering that you haven't read most of what I've written, that's quite a statement to make. But, alas, it's pure speculation. I'm just toying with ideas and see if there are justifiable arguments against those ideas. I'm not "offering" anything.

  Btw, I find process theology, open theism and panentheism to be quite interesting.

  Eden
• 
  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  EdenOne

  "The LORD was with Judah and enabled them to take possession of the hill country, but they could not drive out the people who were living in the valley because those people had iron chariots." (Holman Christian Bible) "They" - the members of the tribe of Judah.

  In the original Hebrew you cannot determine who is the subject "he" or "they". So it's up to the translator to decide. Clearly the context shows that it were the Jews, not God, who couldn't dislodge their enemies from the valley, so most translations favor the use of "they".

  You could have picked a better example ;)

  Eden
• 
  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  EdenOne

  Cofty, when someone departs from the traditional theology that you've gotten so used to mock and deconstruct and starts playing the game by accepting your arguments in favor of evolution, you suddenly become frustrated and leave the game? tsk...
• 
  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Eden said- If God was entirely omniscient and prescient, he would have destroyed Satan before he could cause damage to his plans, don't you think?

  A morally-upright one would, yes.

  Therefore, one must conclude that God is neither entirely omniscient nor entirely prescient, nor entirely all-powerful, nor entirely loving, although he surely posesses those qualities in a degree unmatched by any other being. Actually, to be all-powerful is, in abstract, an impossibility. Because let's say that God could create a stone so heavy that no one in the entire universe could lift. if he was all-powerful he could create such a stone. But if he did, then he wouldn't be able to lift that stone, which would render him not almighty. If that stone could not be lifted by anyone except by God, then it would be demonstrated that God couldn't create a stone that even him could not lift, and therefore, God wouldn't be all-powerful.

  Eden
• 
  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  EdenOne

  If you want anbody to take your ideas seriously you have to allow the sixth day to be around 400 million years long.

  And why not?

  Eden
• 
  154

  Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

  it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

  why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Since sin is defined as any act that violates God's Will

  No, actually "sin" literally means "missing the target". It means becoming unfit to the purpose. I posite that the original sin, the sin that causes permanent death, is the absence of a spiritual bonding with God.

  You quote Romans 5:12? That was a predicatable choice. Again, where can you honestly read in there that God caused Adam and Eve to die? You can only do so by resorting to a lot of extrapolation to lead to a conclusion based on theology that is incrusted within yourself.

  The only thing we can tell for sure by the accounts of the miracles of Jesus is that forgiving sins leads to healing. Period. There is no epistemological need for sin to be the cause of death and ilness. That was the old Jewish superstition - see John 9:2, 3 and the rebuttal of Jesus.

  Eden