Posts by EdenOne

32

Books about early Christianity

by EdenOne in

i've just finished reading two (imo) great books:.

"a history of christianity - the first three thousand years", by diarmaid macculloch.

"misquoting jesus", by bart ehrman.

EdenOne

Doug, regarding the assumption that Mark and Matthew are less "Pauline" than Luke and John, and therefore, keep a more "authentic" record of the early Christian tradition, you really should read Eisenman's "James, The Brother of Jesus", because it utterly debunks that notion. Eisenman makes too much of certain "themes" and "reversions" [such as the 'cast out', 'whiteness', 'eat', etc] found in the synoptics and John, but he's absolutely thorough in demonstrating the anti-Jesus famiily [anti-Qumran] agenda that pervades Mark and Matthew. I was blown away. It's not an easy read, especially for me, a non-english native speaker, but it's based on fresh research, published very recently - and Eisenman is one of the scholars involved in the publishing of the Dead Sea Scrolls texts.

Eden

32

Books about early Christianity

by EdenOne in

i've just finished reading two (imo) great books:.

"a history of christianity - the first three thousand years", by diarmaid macculloch.

"misquoting jesus", by bart ehrman.

EdenOne

OrphanCrow, you said

you are acknowledging the importance of the Jewish faith in the develoment of the Christian religion. Therefore, I don't see how questioning the validity of the Old Testament doesn't come into play in this.

I never questioned the relevance of the Old Testament into the understanding of the Christian wordview. Like I said, the Pauline version of Christianity - or, better, Christianity IS Paul's much altered version of the Jesus movement - can stand on its own without needing theological support from the OT except to provide it context. The OT is relevant, of course, to understand the nature of the Jesus movement, because it's through and through jewish in nature. But in order to do so, one needs to handle the NT with extreme care because nearly all of it, (with the exception of James and Jude) is written under heavy Pauline point of view. And this includes the four biblical gospels.

As for the OT, the mere fact that the apocalyptical movement that Jesus came to be the symbol of FAILED in its intents and aspirations, should be a cautionary tale about taking the jewish OT as "truth". Point is, I had already discarded them even before I started my examination of the NT scripture and apocrypha. It's an interesting set of texts, some wisdom can be retrieved out of it, but I don't let it have any wheight on my worldview anymore. Sadly, I'm coming to the exact same conclusion about the NT as well.

Ps: I can see Cofty with a wicked smile saying: "told you so, Eden, told you so..."

Eden

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

EdenOne

If you're inactive or 'weak' in the preaching activity, you have blood guilt in your hands. That's one of the messages clearly conveyed.

Eden

32

Books about early Christianity

by EdenOne in

i've just finished reading two (imo) great books:.

"a history of christianity - the first three thousand years", by diarmaid macculloch.

"misquoting jesus", by bart ehrman.

EdenOne

OrphanCrow

When I started out, I wasn't set on dismantling the Christian thought. The OT is important to give Christianity context, but I thought Christian thought could do well without it - simply store it on a closet as an obsolete worldview, as you said.

However ... upon close observation [and I say this as I am getting to the end of the book on James, by Eisenstein], the NT is but a war of words and ideas between a post-maccabean, xenophobic, apocalyptic jewish zealot movement [represented by the Qumran community, that ended up producing John the Baptist, Jesus, his brother James plus his other brothers, the Zealots, Siccars and the Ebyonites] opposing the Herodean-Roman rulership and the polluted temple establishment in Jerusalem, and a personal re-interpretation of this movement by an esoteric pro-hellenist, pro-roman, neo-platonist pharisee named Paul, who hijacked the near-exclusive jewish nature of the Jesus movement and transformed it into a new religion, pallatable to the greek-roman world.

We know who won this war.

Eden

32

Books about early Christianity

by EdenOne in

i've just finished reading two (imo) great books:.

"a history of christianity - the first three thousand years", by diarmaid macculloch.

"misquoting jesus", by bart ehrman.

EdenOne

OrphanCrow,

I've discarded the validity of the OT quite awhile ago, at least in the sense of allowing it to have any significant wheight on my wordview. Being a "Christian", my primary interest was to test the validity of the Christian wordview. To do so, one MUST investigate the historical Jesus, what he really said, what he really taught. The result is astonishing: We know not much about what the historical Jesus actually said. What we DO know, for the most part, is what the apostle Paul constructed from the Jesus movement. And nowadays, especially with the Dead Sea Scrolls from the Qumran [Essene] community, and the Nag Hamadi texts, we have a much better idea about the "Jesus movement", and what they stood for. I have to say the result of that isn't flattering for the faith in Jesus Christ.

To a fundamentalist Christian, which now I acknowledge that I was, as a Jehovah's Witness, the notion that the historical Jesus said and taught everything that the New Testament texts say is crucial; if Jesus isn't the son of God and he didn't teach those things, it's utterly damaging to your faith. It's what's happening to me. Some may have a more allegorical / philosophical reading of the NT; given my background, I can't do it. It either is, or isn't. Finding out it isn't is absolutely damaging to the 'christian' faith.

Eden

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

EdenOne

He means, of course, Yahweh, the God of the old testament. That's the one he "knows" and reveres.

Eden

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

EdenOne

Again, I would like to thank the governing body for helping me extract my wife from this cult. Excellent work!

Ditto!

Eden

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

EdenOne

Wasn't that the same talk he delivered in the Bethel of Italy a couple of months ago?

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

EdenOne

Whatever 'privileged information' they don't want to become public knowledge too soon, I think they're perfectly aware that this information will leak and get viral, first among the apostate community then among the faithful rank & file. What do they aim to achieve?

Eden

23

Religion without revelation - any examples from the past?

by EdenOne in

i'm researching on the common trait of mostly every religion coming from pre-humanist times, and that would be, the notion of "revelation", that is, that at the beginning of every [i say this with caution because i'm admitting to exceptions] religion there is some sort of "revelation" from supernatural being(s) of some sort.. my question is: do you know of any example of religions from the past that you can confidently say that were exempt from "revelation"?

this is not the same as asking if there were religions without gods, or religions of nature.

i'm not even considering what i understand as philosophical-ethical systems, such as confucionism or platonism my purpose is to find out if, at the starting point of all religions of the past, there is a "revelation", or merely "observation / contemplation".

EdenOne

What about the "enlightenment" of Siddarta Gautama (Buddha)? How did that come about?

Eden