Posts by EdenOne

22

UNDERSTANDING WHY THE ORGANIZATION is a false idol and a BLASPHEMY

by Terry in

do we understand these three words: worship, idolatry, and blasphemy?.

most christians have a vague notion of worship, idolatry, and blasphemy already, but.

a clear definition is necessary.. we must take care to differentiate, however.. how the words appear in original language and how they are defined today might be at odds.. ____________________.

New forum 'parousia' is upon us! (software version)

by Simon in

the time has nearly come to switch over to the new forum software.

of course it's not completely finished yet (and never will be) but i think it's good enough to go live with and probably already better than the current one.

i'll give you a quick overview of what to expect and post more detail about the changeover process later.. cloud platform.

EdenOne

Simon, let me ask this (I haven't tried it yet, but it came to my mind):

Is it possible to search something like this:

"Threads where I posted + and xxxuserxxx also posted + on 2014"; or "threads that I have started + xxxuserxxx participated + keyword XYZ"

(sorry, not a programmer, but I think you understand what i mean)

Eden

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

I suppose the logical conclusion of this Elder's logic is something like this: 'Don't run ahead of Jehovah's organizational chariot, for, even if you happen to correctly antecipate the next future move, at present time you are wrong and God's organization is right.'

You can't win, ever.

Eden

114

What is truth?

by Heisenberg in

jw
friends

well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

EdenOne

Heisenberg, I was once a carbon copy of you. Nearly a born-in, Elder, delivered parts in Assemblies, etc. I was utterly convinced that I belonged to the uniquely special people who had the truth about God and his exclusive aproval. I've lead a moral life. I snubbed 'wordly people' and believers of other religions. I could debunk every 'false teaching' using the Bible alone and had all JW chronology in my head. I led others into baptism as JW's. I never made friends outside the religion. I thought apostates were but fools and weaklings. I believed Armaggedon was around the corner, and I really cherished the prospect of living forever in an earthly paradise. I even thought that, even if the JWs had the prophecies all wrong, living the JW way of life was still the best life you could lead.

This religion took about four decades of my life. I recognize now that this religion deliberatedly caused my ability to think critically to be seriously rudimentary, incipient enough to be useless in seeing through the doctrinal lies, deceptions, and obfuscations promoted by the leadership of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm still learning to use my critical thinking, well into my 40's, and feel ashamed it took me so long to wake up from my coma. Like most ex-JW's the more I distance myself from JW-land, the more I see the absurdity of it all, especially the doctrinal framework that pervades every aspect of the life within the Organization and how it is used to control the individual Witnesses and erase them as individuals, making them mere cloned parts of a massive, Orwellian society.

Our ill-feelings usually aren't directed at the rank & file Witnesses; for the most part they tend to be really nice people who try their best to live up to what they believe to be 'Godly Standards'. We get frustrated because they, like most of us once, act as douchebags simply because they've been indoctrinated to believe they're special and above the rest of mankind. But then we remember that most of them don't know any better, they don't know how to be any other way. They are like a tree that grew up twisted and deformed by the wind.

However, the leadership, the Governing Body and those up in the organizational ladder don't deserve any kind words. They ought to know better and they actually know better. They know what they're doing. Whether they have become 'prisioners of a concept', or simply cogniscent conmen, these men deserve to be considered criminals, harshly criticized and opposed. They directly impact the lives of millions, and with that comes great responsability. They must be accountable and their actions thoroughly exposed. They don't deserve special reverence just because they claim to be "brothers of Christ", when their actions indicate otherwise. Sure, this also applies to many other religious leaders, but this forum is about the Jehovah's Witnesses, as I'm sure there are other forums about other religions. We gather here because this is our common background and we discuss what we have been through.

That said, welcome to this forum.

Eden

39

OMG! The world is worse than ever! This system can't last! Violence is increasing! Wait, what's that you say?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

if you read jw literature, the world has been progressively getting "worse and worse" since 1914.. is that really the case?.

for a more rational analysis, look here:.

a few highlights:.

EdenOne

The 'post-roman system' ... what in the world are you talking about?

Are you talking about the Western Civilization or the entire world? Can you tell the difference? Because, for all of Americas, Oceania, sub-Sahara Africa and Eastern Asia there was never a 'Roman' era to begin with. And what form of "Roman" system are you talking about? The Kingdom period? The Republic? The unified empire? The dual empire? The Roman empire of the east? Don't BS me with the notion that Charles Magne revived the Holy Roman Empire - because if you do, then you just as well need to be coherent and admit that the Roman papacy is still to this day a continuation of the old Roman Empire. Oh wait - you can't, because it would render the 'post-roman system' notion invalid.

SC, you have bought into the whole JW reinterpretation of world history, where only the tidbits that seem to fit the prophetic interpretation aren't ignored and presented as 'evidence' to support a certain Bible view. I used to do the same, and thought I was very smart [because my average school mates and work mates didn't care s**t about these matters and every JW I knew would never research anything beyond WT literature]; but that all changed when I started seriously researching outside WT literature. Now I realize how willfully ignorant I used to be. I still have a lot to learn, about so many things - I wish I had the time for everything, I wish I had valued education even more when I went to University - but, for all my incipient knowledge, I'm proud to have quit being the willing ignorant. You too should try that. It's both humbling and liberating.

Eden

5

It's imminent now.

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

no, not armageddon, silly.

santa claus.. http://www.noradsanta.org/.

.

EdenOne

You had me ...

... at 'hello' :P

Eden

24

Watchtower buys apt complex in Fishkill, NY

by lostinthought in

jw
friends

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/2014/12/22/jehovahs-witnesses-buy-fishkill-rivercrest-apartments/20788311/.

jehovah's witnesses now owns a major apartment complex in the town of fishkill.. tenants say they've been told their leases will not be renewed.. the sale of the 250-unit rivercrest luxury apartments closed dec. 3, the deed on file at the dutchess county clerk's office shows.

while sale price is not stated, the transfer tax indicates a transaction for $57 million.. rivercrest is a modern development west of route 9d just north of beacon and was a project of avr realty, which also developed other housing and commercial spaces in that area as well as projects in eight states.. the sale deed is between rivercrest development llc, based in yonkers, and watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. as the buyer.

EdenOne

This is very telling that the WTS isn't short on available cash.

Also ...250 units. I wonder if they will put there the old timers that will be curbed from Bethel until they die.

Eden

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

Great responses, thanks. I brought it up, not because I plan to go back to this discussion with that Elder, for as long as he continues to be in such a position of authority within JW land, and I'm not DF, I can't have a frank discussion with him; and if I'm DF he won't even communicate with me anyway. So, only if he someday wakes up - unlikely, at this point. In any case, since it was such a contrived argument, I thought it was useful to discuss it since it may well come up in situations involving others here. I think that, when someone feels it's reasonable to resort to that type of argument, any chance of trying to successfuly use an effective rational argument is entirely hopeless and wasted. The more I distance myself from the WTS, the crazier it all seems.

Eden

75

New forum 'parousia' is upon us! (software version)

by Simon in

the time has nearly come to switch over to the new forum software.

of course it's not completely finished yet (and never will be) but i think it's good enough to go live with and probably already better than the current one.

i'll give you a quick overview of what to expect and post more detail about the changeover process later.. cloud platform.

EdenOne

Great work Simon! Tons of appreciation for what you do.

Eden

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

EdenOne

I don't think I'll ever have another conversation of this sort with him, as now I'm being treated as stranger for not attending meetings anymore. But back then, that reasoning was so bluntly stupid that it caught me off guard that someone could actually racionalize things in such way. And that was the guy in charge of determining if I was going to be considered an apostate or not. Clearly I wasn't in a position to win that argument, so I didn't even reply to that. But it stayed in my memory as a monument to religious irrationality.

Eden