EdenOne

Joined

• started 155 topics
• posted 2,912 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by EdenOne

• 
  21

  Today's groundless speculation thread - so why would a German copilot deliberately fly an airplane into a mountain?

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just can't wrap my head around this.

  the guy (a) evidently did all of this on purpose, and (b) evidently had no reason at all to do so.. there is a huge chunk of the puzzle missing from this one (so far)..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Start using the train more often ....
• 
  52

  It's starting shunning will stop brochure first.step

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm in contact with service and writing and brochure first step there bleeding publishers they can't take it anymore publishers are depressed because they feel they must shun others and they know it's unloving.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  The power of the GB over the rank & file is in the fear of the shunning that ensues a disfellowshipping or dissociation, or even in the treatment of cold avoidance and indifference that inactives usually receive, especially if they're seen as dissenters. I don't see them letting go of such power.

  Eden
• 
  68

  Help needed: Written material regarding shunning of DF'd and DA'd individuals

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like this to become a permanent thread, because i think there are grounds - at least in europe - to take this matter up to the european court of human rights.

  not sure we'll ever get there, but one must start somewhere.

  objective: force, by legal means, the watchtower society and the jehovah's witnesses to stop the practice of shunning ex-jehovah's witnesses, on grounds that it constitutes a violation of human rights.. what is needed: all written material ever published by the watchtower society, especially since 1940's, concerning the practice of shunning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Since you still don't address the issue of shunning as a violation of human rights, and all you attempt is to derail this thread, you don't merit a reply. And still, you show a great lack of knowledge about the Catholic excommunication. I suggest you start a new thread on how excommunication and shunning are good, loving and lawful.

  Eden
• 
  68

  Help needed: Written material regarding shunning of DF'd and DA'd individuals

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like this to become a permanent thread, because i think there are grounds - at least in europe - to take this matter up to the european court of human rights.

  not sure we'll ever get there, but one must start somewhere.

  objective: force, by legal means, the watchtower society and the jehovah's witnesses to stop the practice of shunning ex-jehovah's witnesses, on grounds that it constitutes a violation of human rights.. what is needed: all written material ever published by the watchtower society, especially since 1940's, concerning the practice of shunning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  As for the pertinent bit of your post, why does an action taken before the European Court of Human Rights can't single out the Jehovah's Witnesses?

  Eden
• 
  68

  Help needed: Written material regarding shunning of DF'd and DA'd individuals

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like this to become a permanent thread, because i think there are grounds - at least in europe - to take this matter up to the european court of human rights.

  not sure we'll ever get there, but one must start somewhere.

  objective: force, by legal means, the watchtower society and the jehovah's witnesses to stop the practice of shunning ex-jehovah's witnesses, on grounds that it constitutes a violation of human rights.. what is needed: all written material ever published by the watchtower society, especially since 1940's, concerning the practice of shunning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Before you try to impress me with your TH'D, you should get your facts straight, because Catholic excommunication is different from the protestant disfellowshipping. Namely, because it only barrs an ordained member of the clerigy to officiate and the rank and file from participating in the Eucharistia. There's no shunning, no cut off from communication with others. Again, you're obscuring the discussion by attempting to mix up disfellowshipping with shunning. This discussion is about shunning alone, and how it constitutes a violation of human rights as a form of unlawful discrimination.

  Eden
• 
  99

  Shunned again, and you won't guess where. EVER.

  by kwintestal in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, we were going about our business today as we usually do on a monday.

  mrs kwin went to work, kids went to school, i stayed home and made apple sauce and beer.

  2:30 comes along and it's time to pick up everyone and, oh yeah ... we have that appointment today.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  I wonder what was the outcome of this story...?

  Eden
• 
  68

  Help needed: Written material regarding shunning of DF'd and DA'd individuals

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like this to become a permanent thread, because i think there are grounds - at least in europe - to take this matter up to the european court of human rights.

  not sure we'll ever get there, but one must start somewhere.

  objective: force, by legal means, the watchtower society and the jehovah's witnesses to stop the practice of shunning ex-jehovah's witnesses, on grounds that it constitutes a violation of human rights.. what is needed: all written material ever published by the watchtower society, especially since 1940's, concerning the practice of shunning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  For those who think that the First Ammendmend protects the right of a religion to shun ex-members because the Bible says so: let's imagine that a religion takes the OT to the letter. One of its members is caught in adultery. Since the OT prescribes death by stoning for that sin, this religion advocates the right to stone to death its member. Now, would the First Ammendment protect this action under the "freedom of religion" excuse? What is the difference regarding shunning?

  Eden
• 
  68

  Help needed: Written material regarding shunning of DF'd and DA'd individuals

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like this to become a permanent thread, because i think there are grounds - at least in europe - to take this matter up to the european court of human rights.

  not sure we'll ever get there, but one must start somewhere.

  objective: force, by legal means, the watchtower society and the jehovah's witnesses to stop the practice of shunning ex-jehovah's witnesses, on grounds that it constitutes a violation of human rights.. what is needed: all written material ever published by the watchtower society, especially since 1940's, concerning the practice of shunning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  WheninDoubt

  Since you don't adress the issues in discussion and you're merely attempting to obscure and derail the thread with trolling tactics, you don't merit any further reply. Better count your hours for the monthly report at the expense of someone else.

  Eden
• 
  6

  New Portuguese rendering of John 8:58 in Revised Edition NWT

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  previous rendering of john 8:58: jesus ldisse-hes : digo-vos em toda a verdade: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu tenho sido.. new rendering: jesus lhes disse: digo-lhes com toda a certeza: antes de abraao vir a existencia, eu ja existia.. i am calling attention to the words in bold letters.

  the previous rendering: "i have been.

  the new reading: "i already existed.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Wonderment,

  The new text makes a lot more sense. "Eu tenho sido" [I have been] is an odd way of wording it, possibly even borderline incorrect from a grammar point of view. [Because it begs the question: I have been - what?] The new wording doesn't change anything fundamental doctrinally and the wording is by far more natural with portuguese.

  Eden
• 
  68

  Help needed: Written material regarding shunning of DF'd and DA'd individuals

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like this to become a permanent thread, because i think there are grounds - at least in europe - to take this matter up to the european court of human rights.

  not sure we'll ever get there, but one must start somewhere.

  objective: force, by legal means, the watchtower society and the jehovah's witnesses to stop the practice of shunning ex-jehovah's witnesses, on grounds that it constitutes a violation of human rights.. what is needed: all written material ever published by the watchtower society, especially since 1940's, concerning the practice of shunning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  Whenindoubt

  To your first point: Separation of State and Church. It's funny that the issue of separation of State and Church is so promptly brought up by religious apologists such as yourself when there's even as much as a suggestion that judicial and legislative powers may force churches to simply comply with the law; all the while churches attempt to influence lawmakers and local authorities to grant them tax exemptions, introduce creationism into the teaching system, anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage laws, etc etc. The hypocrisy of it if appalling. You really should stop being so American-centered, because there's a world out there. I'm discussing the laws of Europe, which, in case you haven't noticed, it's also located on planet Earth. If you look in the world map, it's to the East of the US. Shouldn't take you long to find it. Alas, for apologists such as yourself, the First Amendment seems to be another loving provision of Jehovah against the hordes of Satan. How ironic!

  Religious organizations such as the Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses thrive by exploiting the liberties warranted by Western Democracies. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, except when religions demand to be shielded from the full effect of the law alleging violation of "freedom of religion". Legislators in Europe aren't as condescending with religious lobbies as lawmakers in the U.S., you see. So, instead to derailing this thread with comments based on the American Constitution, I won't dignify you with an answer unless you're prepared to speak about european legislation.

  On your second point: Congratulations, you can copy and paste from biblehub.com ! Regarding the Scriptures you mentioned, after being a baptized Jehovah's Witness for nearly 30 years and an ex-Elder, you can be sure I've heard them all and every argument put forth by the Governing Body to back up their theology of disfellowshipping. Let me stress this out: The issue here is not the termination of fellowship. It's the shunning that follows, which should be ruled as unlawful and illegal. Therefore, why don't you go read with a keen eye on 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15 - "If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."

  How can you 'stop associating with' and at the same time 'admonish' (which involves communication) and keep considering such person as a 'brother'? In Watchtowerism this text is used to support the practice of "marking" someone in the congregation, and it is usually stressed that it doesn't apply to disfellowshipping. This is a peculiarity of the Jehovah's Witnesses, because any Bible commentator will tell you that Paul is discussing the very same thing here as in Romans 16:17 or 1 Corinthians 5:11.

  Have you read the work of Alikin? Because if you had, you would know that "stop associating with" and "not even eating with" had to do with the way the Christian gatherings were organized in the Early church, namely the table fellowship that took place during the eucharistia portion of the Gatherings, where only the iniciated (baptized in good standing) could participate in the body and blood of Christ through table fellowship. And as for the "greeting" that John mentions, it had to do with a blessing extended as a greeting (such as "Godspeed") to a false teacher who might take advantage of the hospitality of a Christian, which John argues that might implicate the greeter as partaking in the false teachings of the false teacher. It had nothing to do with disfellowshipping for immorality, for example. Your interpretation of Scripture is skewed by your Watchtowerism. Cultivate yourself with History - read the work of Alikin that I suggested - and you'll see all the important points about the early Christian gatherings that the Organization omits, and would be very important to know.

  As for Islam, it's not my concern, as it's neither the Amish, the Mormons, Scientology ... If any of them is shunned and feels his human rights violated, he should file a complaint. At least here in Europe...on planet Earth.

  Eden