Posts by EdenOne

7

Church of Scientology banned in Moscow

by EdenOne in

it's not only jw's that get banned in moscow ... the church of scientology too, deemed a "cult" and banned.. eden.

EdenOne

It's not only JW's that get banned in Moscow ... the Church of Scientology too, deemed a "cult" and banned.

Eden

9

Burn, baby, burn...!

by EdenOne in

i had to clear space in my shelves for new books that keep arriving.

so... out with the "old light"!

we got rid of all spares and duplicates and only kept one of each for the sake of memorabilia.

I had to clear space in my shelves for new books that keep arriving. So... out with the "old light"! We got rid of all spares and duplicates and only kept one of each for the sake of memorabilia. For now ...

In doing his, i was only keeping the Watchtower Society's own sound advice:

And also following the fine example set by those Christians in Ephesus, as per the Book of Acts:

That pesky "Revelation Climax" book was the one that took longer to burn. Must be all those demunz in it.

It felt great - freedom!

And just because it's the song that inspired the title of this thread...

Burn baby burn - Ash

Eden

15

Just read "Zealot - The Life And Times Of Jesus Of Nazareth"

by EdenOne in

so, keeping in mind that mrs. eden isn't so comfortable with english, i have been searching for books on the subject of the historical jesus and who wrote the bible, and i got very frustrated because there's not a lot of those in my native language.

most of what i read in english simply hasn't been translated, which is a shame.

in any case, i managed to get two: bart ehrman's "misquoting jesus" and reza aslan's "zealot".

EdenOne

Bart Ehrman is a sad figure.

That article that you've linked to is the finished example of ad hominem driven by utter religious bias and hate, not evidence-based knowledge. Garbage can worth material. And, by the way, the book that motivates that article in question isn't even Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" or even "Jesus, Interrupted", which I make reference to in this thread. Rather, it's Ehrman's "God's Problem", in which he discusses his personal reasons for becoming agnostic, namely how he feels the Bible doesn't provide an answer to the problem of evil. So, Perry, you bring out a critique abut an author, as if his agnosticism precludes him from having a correct assessment of the textual problems within the Bible. The conclusion you draw is what, in fact, is indeed sad. Because, by the same token, non-muslims cannot make informed assessments about Islam's fundamentalism because they're not believers of the Quram.

The author of the article concludes his drivel by saying:

"There is nothing unrighteous about the God of the Bible, but He is God and He does not have to answer to man. God is justified by those who believe."

Enough said. The Almighty can do no wrong, even when he commands wholesale killings of men, women and children and animals, for good measure too. No wonder the entity responsible for publishing this drivel identifies itself as:

"Way of Life Literature's Fundamental Baptist Information Service, an e-mail listing for Fundamental Baptists and other fundamentalist, Bible-believing Christians."

Sure, the world needs more fundamentalists.

To quote Bruce Bawer, in "Stealing Jesus - How Fundamentalism Betrays Jesus" (1997)

"the problem with legalistic Christianity is not simply that it affirms that God can be evil; it's that it imagines a manifestly evil God and calls that evil good.

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." - Isaiah 5:20

Eden

63

Why does the Watchtower leadership slap its own defenders in the face?

by slimboyfat in

take the case of rolf furuli.

i don't think there has been a specific thread on the hebrew verbs u-turn in the nwt, and how the society has responded to the work of perhaps their brightest and ablest defender in their history.

so here goes.. rolf furuli has defended jws on multiple fronts in many different settings, on issues ranging from chronology, mental health, doctrines, bible translation and the blood issue.

EdenOne

Besides, they value "spiritual qualifications" [i.e. unquestioning obedience] over expertise [which usually results in people "puffed with pride"].

As a result, you get what you've paid for.

Eden

25

"Obey" or "Be persuaded" at Hebrews 13.17

by Wonderment in

various posters have apparently concluded that the wt society is wrong by quoting hebrews 13.17 as a reason for christians to submit to, and be "obedient" to those taking the lead among them.

they have pointed out that the greek word for obedience is "hypakouo" or some other, not "pei'tho" which is the one that appears in the beginning of verse 17 at hebrews ch.

their motive for their objections may be one of rancor brought about by the extreme authoritative measures the society have imposed on the brotherhood.

EdenOne

The espistole known as "Hebrews" wasn't written by Paul - there's a wide consensus amongst scholars about that. But it was written from a Pauline prespective. It was likely written by a well educated greek speaking collaborator of Paul as some sort of phostumous work of Paul, or meant to be regarded as such. The ruthless attack to the Law and and jewish rituals as having been superseeded and made obsolete by Jesus' priesthood in heaven is entirely a Pauline vision. But this vision was in itself build in opposition to the original core of apostles who walked with Christ, who were based in Jerusalem.

Since the letter makes no reference to the destruction of the Temple; it's written in a more refined way than the other genuine letters of Paul; Timothy is referenced as still being alive (13:23); and Clement of Alexandria makes reference to it in 95 CE; it is believed to have been written shortly after Paul's death and around the time of the breakout of the first judean war; therefore 65/66 CE.

The reference to "obedience" to those taking the lead among them without making also a reference to the apostles in Jerusalem (James the Just brother of Jesus and John son of Zebedee, or Judas brother of Jesus, the leadership of the mother congregation in Jerusalem) all the while defending anti-Torah ideas that were completely at odds with the general orientation of the church in Jerusalem - therefore, apostate - is a clear attack to the orthodox christianity as represented by the jamesian tradition. It was Paul that established episkopos and diakonos in the congregations, not James. It was Paul who appointed travelling overseers to make these appointments in the congregations that he himself had established, not James.

You have to understand this appeal to obedience to the local "authority" in the broader context of the struggle between two different and antagonic apostolic authorities: the twelve, and Paul. If someone is still in the mind frame that the church in the first century was a unity, that someone still has a long way ahead to educate himself/herself.

Eden

31

heart troubles

by zeb in

jw
friends

dear all,.

my health took a beating over the years with stress from various sources, not a little from the wt; and dangerous areas of work involving fumes and so on.

the arc also took its toll and i have had recently a heart attack.

EdenOne

Zeb, I wish you a successful surgery, and hopefully this won't be your last post. See you soon!

Eden

56

One reason behind the slow steady decline of JWs

by AllTimeJeff in

hello first of all to those that remember me.

i'm doing well, 10 years since my missionary trip to cameroon.

i've met a couple of goals.

EdenOne

We don't have a Governing Body anymore ... What we have is a GOVERNING CORPSE.

Welcome back AllTimeJeff! While I was a lurker your posts were those that I always wanted to read first. Thank you for helping me to wake up.

Eden

15

Just read "Zealot - The Life And Times Of Jesus Of Nazareth"

by EdenOne in

so, keeping in mind that mrs. eden isn't so comfortable with english, i have been searching for books on the subject of the historical jesus and who wrote the bible, and i got very frustrated because there's not a lot of those in my native language.

most of what i read in english simply hasn't been translated, which is a shame.

in any case, i managed to get two: bart ehrman's "misquoting jesus" and reza aslan's "zealot".

EdenOne

My last post was done very late at night, and I forgot to add something that the "Zealot" book yielded, that was rather surprising to me.

The fact that Paul took the teachings of the followers of Jesus and transformed it into a whole new religion isn't a novelty. However, I thought that Paul's teachings were winning by landslide in the first century. Aslan's insightful analysis shows otherwise. In fact, the congregation of Jerusalem, led by James, the Brother of Jesus, saw Paul as a dangerous apostate, and fought back, sending their own missionaries to visit Paul's congregations and urging them to return to keeping Moses' Law, as it was observed by the congregation in Jerusalem. Hence, Paul's constant rants against the judaizants and his constant need to reaffirm his authority as an apostle not inferior to those who have walked and broke bread with Jesus. And, in fact, the congregations were giving more consideration to blood, and so James was winning those people back, which left Paul in hot water, tonthe point that he got publicly scolded by James for teaching an apostasy against Moses (Acts 21) and hummiliated by having to submit to a ritual of purification in the Temple. However, the tide turned when the Temple was destroyed in 70CE, and suddenly no one wanted anything to do with a religion (judaism) that had been humilliated by Rome. That's when the disciples of Paul seized their opportunity and gained mommentum.

Eden

15

Just read "Zealot - The Life And Times Of Jesus Of Nazareth"

by EdenOne in

so, keeping in mind that mrs. eden isn't so comfortable with english, i have been searching for books on the subject of the historical jesus and who wrote the bible, and i got very frustrated because there's not a lot of those in my native language.

most of what i read in english simply hasn't been translated, which is a shame.

in any case, i managed to get two: bart ehrman's "misquoting jesus" and reza aslan's "zealot".

EdenOne

I also recommend "How Jesus Became God" by Bart Earhman.

I have it as an e-book, but haven't read it yet.

How about Richard Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt"

I never found compelling arguments against the historicity of Jesus, from what I've read in several articles. But I'll keep that in mind when I decide to read something more in-depth to that effect.

he doesn't feel Reza isn't really well qualified to talk about early christianity.

I don't agree with Ehrman. Aslan was raised a Muslim, lived in a liberal muslim family and converted to evangelical christianity on his late teens. He then had a scholarly path much similar to Bart Ehrman's. I don't think that the islamic roots of Aslam per se disqualify him from doing a scholarly work on the historic Jesus. It's actually a bit inelegant to claim so.

Brent btw is an excellent scholar

I'll keep an eye for an opportunity to look into his works.

=============

Btw, some more recommendations (in english):

"The Authentic Gospel Of Jesus" - Geza Vermes

"Paul and Jesus - How the Apostle Transformed Christianity" - James D. Tabor (Highly recommended!!)

"James the Brother Of Jesus" - Robert Eisenman (Extremely dense book, not for the faint of heart ...!)

"Jesus, Interrupted" - Bart Ehrman

"A History of Christianity" - Diairmaid MacCulloch (For a comprehensive historical overview of the development of Christianity until the the XX century.)

=================

Finally, one of my favorites. It's a scholarly article (Book? Thesis?) about how the first Christian gatherings.I have found it a fascinating reading. I found it very useful when I had to research for an article I wrote about shunning.

THE EARLIEST HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN GATHERING - ORIGIN, DEVELOPMENT AND CONTENT OF THE CHRISTIAN GATHERING IN THE FIRST TO THIRD CENTURIES

by Valeriy Alexandrovich Alikin

Eden

15

Just read "Zealot - The Life And Times Of Jesus Of Nazareth"

by EdenOne in

so, keeping in mind that mrs. eden isn't so comfortable with english, i have been searching for books on the subject of the historical jesus and who wrote the bible, and i got very frustrated because there's not a lot of those in my native language.

most of what i read in english simply hasn't been translated, which is a shame.

in any case, i managed to get two: bart ehrman's "misquoting jesus" and reza aslan's "zealot".

EdenOne

So, keeping in mind that Mrs. Eden isn't so comfortable with english, I have been searching for books on the subject of the historical Jesus and who wrote the Bible, and I got very frustrated because there's not a lot of those in my native language. Most of what I read in english simply hasn't been translated, which is a shame. In any case, I managed to get two: Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" and Reza Aslan's "Zealot".

I've just finished reading "Zealot" in just one day. It's simple and easy to follow, at some points I find it a bit superficial. But seems to me a good introduction book for someone wanting to know more about the historical Jesus. It's useful to debunk the devotional reading of the gospels and the wrong notion that the NT displays a united church of the followers of Christ.

I recommend it, but as I said, it keeps things on a relatively accessible level, but for more in-depth research, there are better works. Have you read it?

Eden