EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  31

  I wrote to Mr. Angus Stewart regarding the "inactive" status claims made by the Watchtower at the ARC

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the email i have just sent to mr. stewart angus, who has been conducting the questioning of the jw leaders during the australian royal commission dealing with child abuse cases among the jehovah's witnesses, concerning the claims made that a jehovah witness who wishes to walk away from the organization can simply become inactive and avoid being shunned:.

  dear mr. angus stewart,

  i have followed with interest the videos of the arc regarding the jehovah's witnesses in australia.

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  EdenOne

  Can you please tell me how to get in touch with them?
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  6

  I wrote to Mr. Angus Stewart regarding the "bible-based two witness rule" claims made by the Watchtower at the ARC

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  besides the email message to mr. angus stewart that i have posted on the other thread, i have send him the following email regarding the two-witness rule and the claims it can't be changed because it's "bible-based":.

  "dear mr. angus steward,.

  i would like to draw your attention to another aspect of the arguments presented by the leadership of the jehovah's witness, in this case regarding the "two witness rule" and the duty to report to secular authorities.

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  EdenOne

  Besides the email message to Mr. Angus Stewart that I have posted on the other thread, I have send him the following email regarding the two-witness rule and the claims it can't be changed because it's "bible-based":

  ----------------------------

  "Dear Mr. Angus Steward,

  
  I would like to draw your attention to another aspect of the arguments presented by the leadership of the Jehovah's Witness, in this case regarding the "two witness rule" and the duty to report to secular authorities.
  
  Allow me to draw your attention to LEVITICUS 5:1
  
  "If someone sins because he has heard a public call to testify and he is a witness or has seen or learned about it and he does not report it, then he will answer for his error."
  (New World Translation)
  "If anyone sins because they do not speak up when they hear a public charge to testify regarding something they have seen or learned about, they will be held responsible."
  (New International Version)
  
  This passage is often used in the Watchtower publications to remind the Jehovah's Witnesses that they have the moral obligation to report to the elders of the congregation if they become privy to some misconduct from another member of the congregation, even if that person is a close family member. Failing to do so is a serious sin and may bring the person before a judicial committee.
  
  Notice how the person who has become privy to the information needed not two witnesses in order to report to the authorities what he came to know; nor is he required to establish the credibility of the information before reporting it; nor should he seek a confession from the accused before reporting it; nor should he inquiry if it was mandatory in his town to report it.
  
  Accordingly, if an Elder in a congregation of the Jehovah's Witnesses is informed of an allegation of sexual child abuse in the congregation, he should report it to the proper authorities without attempting to establish the credibility of the allegations, or seek a confession from the accused, or waiting for two witnesses of the incident to come forth and bear witness, or even inquiry if reporting is mandatory in his territory. The Bible is clear: report it to the authorities!
  
  Who are the "authorities" here? Well, since sexual child abuse is both a sin AND a public crime, it stands to reason that the sin is to be dealt by the religious authority and the crime is to be dealt by the judicial authorities. The Elders should not wait for instructions from the legal department from the Branch Office and abstain from taking action if they can't establish guilt. Even from the Bible standpoint, it would be extremely easy for the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witness to look at Leviticus 5:1 and tell the Elders: "Sexual child abuse is a CRIME and in the spirit of Leviticus 5:1, the Elders who become privy to such allegations must immediatly report them to the police and let justice take its course. Only then they can take steps to deal with the sin." How hard would that be?
  
  Obviously, the main concern of the leadership of the Watchtower Society isn't to protect the children and support the victims, but solely to protect its reputation and its own assets."

  XXXX XXXXX XXXX XXXX
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  95

  Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

  i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

  how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

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  EdenOne

  Leviticus 5:1 -" If someone sins because he has heard a public call to testify and he is a witness or has seen or learned about it and he does not report it, then he will answer for his error."

  In ancient Israel, guilt for any case of misconduct needed not be established BEFORE it was reported to the authorities. It was a sin to "learn about it" and then "not report it" to the authorities. The Watchtower fails to apply this simple principle to allegations of sexual child abuse in the congregation.

  The Elders in the congregation only have to "learn about it" in order to report it to the proper authorities. No "two-witness rule" is outlined here in order to REPORT. The proper authorities that have jurisdiction on a CRIME of sexual child abuse aren't the religious authorities within the Organization, and not the legal department at Bethel. Those authorities are the POLICE and the CHILD PROTECTION SERVICES and the COURTS. Sexual child abuse is both a sin AND a public crime. The elders may deal with the sin, but they don't need to establish the credibility of the allegation, nor seek the confession from the accused before they report the allegations to the police.

  The WTS is so obtuse, that even relying in 2.000+ year old obsolete law systems, they FAIL in following them. And the only reason is this: They put their assets, their reputation and "good name" above the well-being of the victims and the protection of their children and of the community at large.
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  95

  Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

  i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

  how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

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  EdenOne

  The leadership of the JWs claims that the "two witness rule" isn't even a matter of interpretation - that the rule is so clearly laid out in the Bible that needs no "interpretation" or doesn't allow for a different interpretation other than that that is made by the WTS.

  If that is the case, please tell me where in the Bible is clearly written that two separate witnesses to a similar incident (example: two individuals alone, in separate events, saw a JW smoking) can be considered as "two witnesses". Isn't this a matter of INTERPRETATION?

  Or please tell me where in the Bible it says that two elders who are spying from a car observe a JW woman walk in and later walk out of the house of a man to whom she is not married with, and thus "witness" that she has committed sexual misconduct? (Actually, that being the case, how to justify that Samson spent the night at the house of a prostitute in Gaza? - Judges 16:1) Is this not the case of INTERPRETATION?

  F***ing hypocrites.
• 
  31

  I wrote to Mr. Angus Stewart regarding the "inactive" status claims made by the Watchtower at the ARC

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the email i have just sent to mr. stewart angus, who has been conducting the questioning of the jw leaders during the australian royal commission dealing with child abuse cases among the jehovah's witnesses, concerning the claims made that a jehovah witness who wishes to walk away from the organization can simply become inactive and avoid being shunned:.

  dear mr. angus stewart,

  i have followed with interest the videos of the arc regarding the jehovah's witnesses in australia.

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  EdenOne

  This is the email I have just sent to Mr. Stewart Angus, who has been conducting the questioning of the JW leaders during the Australian Royal Commission dealing with child abuse cases among the Jehovah's Witnesses, concerning the claims made that a jehovah Witness who wishes to walk away from the organization can simply become inactive and avoid being shunned:

  ------------------------------

  Dear Mr. Angus Stewart,
  
  I have followed with interest the videos of the ARC regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia. You are extremely knowledgeable in your interventions and I praise you for your level of preparation.
  
  I have seen that lately it seems to be a strategy of the Jehovah's Witnesses leadership to argue that a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses can chose to become inactive, rather then formally disassociate from the cult; this way they give the impression that it's a matter of choice that former members get shunned. More revolting even - it is suggested that it is the disassocoated member who has chosen to shun the Jehovah's Witnesses (!!), thus reversing the burden of blame upon the victim of shunning. Those who leave may indeed want nothing to do with the religion, but in most cases, certainly they don't want to sever ties with their friends and relatives who chose to remain as members. Those are two different things, but dishonestly the leadership of the Jehovah's Witnesses attempts to conflate them.
  
  Allow me to suggest you this line of questioning:
  
  A publisher of the congregation isn't considered "inactive" until 6 consecutive months have passed without reporting any ministry service hours. If someone wishes to no longer be an active member of the congregation, with immediate effect, must he wait 6 months until he is consider such? What is his (her) status during those first six months?
  
  According to the Watchtower literature - especially that whose audience are the congregation elders - if someone doesn't formally disassociate from the Jehovah's Witnesses, but makes a public claim (can simply be during a conversation with friends that gets reported to the congregation elders) to the effect that he ino longer considers himself (herself) a Jehovah's Witness, that person is considered as having disassociated himself (herself) from the congregation, thus resulting in shunning. Therefore, it is NOT TRUE that a person can simply become inactive in order to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses and avoid shunning.
  
  Accordingly, if a Jehovah's Witness who has become inactive, but is found to have engaged in some "sinful" behavior (such as sexual misconduct or apostasy), that person is still under the disciplinary jurisdiction of the body of elders of the local congregation and may be subject to a judicial committee and be disfellowshipped and subject to shunning. This proves that an 'inactive' is still considered a member and has no freedom of behavior or speech. Many years may pass (and eventually it must require a change of town) until the elders may decide to not take disciplinary action against an inactive member who is known to have adopted a behavior that would normally result in disfellowshipping of an active Witness.
  
  Let me tell you something that happened in my family, in Portugal, Europe: My son, who was baptized as a Jehovah's Witness at age 11, became inactive at age 15, and stopped going to the religious meetings and report ministry service hours. More than two years later, he was summoned for the National Defense Day (NDD), which is of mandatory attendance for all citizens. It is customary that Jehovah's Witnesses' apply for Conscientious Objector status to avoid attending that one-day event, given their objections to participate in warfare, military service and their claims of neutrality in political affairs. However, in Portugal, failing to attend that event precludes someone for applying for a job as a civil servant later in life. So, my son decided he shouldn't give up that option, and he attended the NDD. In a letter written previously to the congregation body of elders, it was stated that he felt that he was simply complying with the secular law and that by complying with the law of the country he absolutely meant in no way to disassociate from the Jehovah's Witnesses. A couple of weeks following the NDD, two elders from the congregation came to our door, to inform us that our son had disassociated himself from the congregation by attending the NDD. The announcement was made to the congregation later that week, and he has been shunned ever since, including by members of his own family. Consequently, both me and my wife wrote letters of disassociation from the congregation of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
  
  It is also a fact that the culture among the Jehovah's Witnesses is to informally shun those who become inactive, in what can be described as "soft shunning". The inactives are considered a bad example, bad influence, and association with them, even in the family context, is strongly discouraged. They become progressively left out of all social interaction with congregation members. That happened with me and my wife as well while we were inactive.
  
  In conclusion, Mr. Angus Stewart, it is a flat out falsehood the claim that a Jehovah's Witness can simply become "inactive" in order to separate himself (herself) from the Organization and avoid being shunned. The "inactive" status doesn't grant the person the liberty to act and speak freely without becoming subject to disciplinary jurisdiction of the body of elders of the congregation which, depending on the "sin", may either disfellowship (even in absentia) or decide that the inactive member has disassociated himself. The result, in either case, is shunning. A victim of child sex abuse who becomes inactive doesn't have the freedom to:
  
  a) Say "I'm no longer a Jehovah's Witness" because, if reported to the congregation elders, it will be decided that such person has disassociated himself (herself), and an announcement will be made to the congregation to that effect and the person will thus be shunned.
  b) Attend another religious group's service. (Disassociation)
  c) Accept a blood transfusion (Disassociation)
  d) Attend the compulsory military service or join a political party or run for a political position (Disassociation)
  e) Have sex outside marriage, be it pre-marital, adulterous, homosexual... (Disfellowshipping)
  f) Publicly criticize, in speech or writing, the Watchtower Organization, its leadership and its policies or doctrine. (Apostasy - Disfellowshipping or disassociation)
  g) Smoke, gambling or buy a lottery ticket (Disfellowshipping)
  
  Please take the above into consideration the next time a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses attempts to disingenuously claim before the ARC that someone can simply chose to become inactive to avoid being shunned.
  
  Best regards,
  
  XXXXX XXX XXX XXXXXX
  
• 
  16

  The Guardian: In Russia, the persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses begins all over again

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2017/mar/09/in-russia-the-persecution-of-jehovahs-witnesses-begins-all-over-again.

  in russia, the persecution of jehovah’s witnesses begins all over again.

  giles fraser.

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  EdenOne

  As much as I despise this religion now, freedom of belief, gathering, and opinion is a hallmark of modern civilization and denying it on ridiculous grounds of "extremism" is abhorring. Russia is becoming a bleak place to live. There are other ways to grab this cult by its balls without going into persecution mode, which, as we know, only exacerbates their martyr mindset. Sad.
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  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

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  EdenOne

  Marked
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  102

  Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

  by kpop in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

  after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

  " shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

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  EdenOne

  I have come to terms with my lack of belief in personal deities. Technically I don't call myself an ideological atheist, although I may be a functional atheist. I leave some room for the possibility that something I don't know about might exist, which makes me some sort of an agnostic. For sure, I am an apatheist - it makes no difference if deities exist or not.

  i have once defined lightheatedly myself as "absentheist" - some people here took exception with that term and called me everything from fool to pathetic to whatnot - but to me it actually defines my point of view: God wasn't found where he was supposed to be, therefore I can only say that he's absent. Could it be because he never existed to begin with? Could it be because he created life but doesn't care for our well-being? Could it be because he is just silent and requires faith and has a plan for you and me? I don't know with 100% certainty, but all evidence available points towards a non-existing deity.

  Life and death make a lot more sense once you remove God from the equation. I have made my peace with it.
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  4

  JWFacts in Portuguese?

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is already a translation of jwfacts to spanish, it is www.verdadtj.comwondering if anyone here speaks english and portuguese and knows html and would like to start the translation of jwfacts to portuguese?.

  thanks!.

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  EdenOne

  I am in Portugal and I natively speak Portuguese. I'm not familiar with HTML except for perhaps some WYSIWYG editor. I am a collaborator and contributor to the portuguese ex-JW forum. I also speak spanish reasonably. How can I help?
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  7

  my letter to my molestor

  by jehovahismyshepard in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i wrote the following in my therapy sessions to treat my sexual abuse as an adult.

  i thought that you should know that i recently discovered the reason i am weird and at times react strange there is a part of me that will never go away .... no matter how hard i try to control or hide it everyday it will always show it will always stay .. i. thought that you should know this indescribable grueling act of what you did ., that inside my adult mind and body you locked up and left for ever a trapped kid...do you know how hard it must be to accept that ?

  do you even care ?do you ever feel bad when you look in the mirror who do you see when you stare?

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  EdenOne

  Hello jehovahismyshepard, thank you for sharing that powerful letter.

  Would you like to share your story here?

  And, have you reported what happened to the authorities?