EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  15

  What Do They Have in Common?: Covington/ Muhammed Ali / Disfellowship policy

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  covington / muhammed ali / disfellowship (what do they have in common?

  )“hayden c. covington, one of the most influential figures in the history of first amendment law.

  beyond the numerous first amendment cases he argued or co-argued in the supreme court, he also prevailed on behalf of the witnesses in over “100 decisions handed down by various state supreme courts, and .

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  EdenOne

  Good point, Earnest!

  Interestingly, in the 1956 article, it says that a JW would never lie under oath and instead should remain silent and face the consequences. In the following articles, I believe that was dropped.
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  15

  What Do They Have in Common?: Covington/ Muhammed Ali / Disfellowship policy

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  covington / muhammed ali / disfellowship (what do they have in common?

  )“hayden c. covington, one of the most influential figures in the history of first amendment law.

  beyond the numerous first amendment cases he argued or co-argued in the supreme court, he also prevailed on behalf of the witnesses in over “100 decisions handed down by various state supreme courts, and .

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  EdenOne

  Terry,

  The first use of "theocratic warfare" doctrine that I'm aware of is from 1957:
  

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1957327?q=theocratic+warfare&p=par

  "Use Theocratic War Stategy"

  The Walsh Trial depositions happened in 1954. After appeal(s), the unfavorable final ruling of the case by the Supreme Court of the UK came out in 1956. By then, the Judge (can't remember his name now, had to look it up) called the Watchtower a totalitarian organization.
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  15

  What Do They Have in Common?: Covington/ Muhammed Ali / Disfellowship policy

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  covington / muhammed ali / disfellowship (what do they have in common?

  )“hayden c. covington, one of the most influential figures in the history of first amendment law.

  beyond the numerous first amendment cases he argued or co-argued in the supreme court, he also prevailed on behalf of the witnesses in over “100 decisions handed down by various state supreme courts, and .

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  EdenOne

  Good read, Terry.

  It helps to explain the reversal of policy regarding excommunication.

  Also, Terry, I have a gut feeling that it was the unmitigated disaster of the blunt sincerity during the Walsh Trial depositions by Fred Franz and Covington that led to the adoption of the "theocratic warfare" doctrine in 1957. Does it make sense to you?
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  9

  Australian jw org responds to Govt. pressure to participate in sexual abuse redress scheme.

  by Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice. in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reported in the news today - let's hope victims are duly compensated for their suffering and the org is taken to the cleaners.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-10/jehovahs-witnesses-sign-up-to-sexual-abuse-redress-scheme/100449204.

  cheeses - the wholly holey holy one..

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  EdenOne

  Ok, I was able to find a retraction from News Corp regarding that report ....

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5720653717045248/australia-selling-off-assets?page=3
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  9

  Australian jw org responds to Govt. pressure to participate in sexual abuse redress scheme.

  by Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice. in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reported in the news today - let's hope victims are duly compensated for their suffering and the org is taken to the cleaners.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-10/jehovahs-witnesses-sign-up-to-sexual-abuse-redress-scheme/100449204.

  cheeses - the wholly holey holy one..

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  EdenOne

  Can you lead me to a verifiable source please?
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  51

  PIMO elder

  by Reservations in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i’m reservations, pimo elder.

  i’m in no position to leave the organisation, maybe some people will see that as weak or whatever, but we have to all go down our own path in life.. i would like to be able to wake people up in my congregation, how do you think best to do this?

  any ideas?.

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  EdenOne

  As an Elder, you have access. To information, to documents.

  Document yourself with everything you possibly can. Anything that helps prove discriminating policies, suspicious transactions, coverups policies, changes in beliefs, etc. Elders have access to information not available to common rank-and-file. Use that access. It may prove very valuable at a later stage.

  If possible, tactfully, incentive people in your congregation to be open-minded about information sources. Encourage people to be receptive to sources outside the Watchtower publications (don't ever mention WHY). But this opens a backdoor in people's minds. If they will use it or not, who knows, But it's there.

  Cast doubts about the Slave's ability to correctly interpret Scriptures, by pointing out many doctrine changes in the past - but always putting a positive spin on it, like, how they are humble and willing to admit that they were wrong, or how they are always trying to let the scriptures guide them. At some point, people will start asking themselves why an organization supposedly led by God himself has to change doctrine so many times. Couldn't God get it right the first time around?

  Then, when you can no longer help people anymore without attracting negative attention, resign from Elder. Don't give much explanations, say that you're burned out, depressed, whatever. They will try to squeeze you for more information (such as determining if you're a covert apostate, or if you have committed some sin secretly), but don't crack under pressure.

  When you feel ready, fade out. Or disassociate. For your sanity's sake. Living a life you don't believe in anymore is truly damaging for your mental health.
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  9

  Australian jw org responds to Govt. pressure to participate in sexual abuse redress scheme.

  by Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice. in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reported in the news today - let's hope victims are duly compensated for their suffering and the org is taken to the cleaners.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-10/jehovahs-witnesses-sign-up-to-sexual-abuse-redress-scheme/100449204.

  cheeses - the wholly holey holy one..

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  EdenOne

  I have heard an unsubstantiated comment that the Australian branch had sold all of their assents and transferred the money outside of Australia before they joined the redressing scheme. Is there any truth to it? Or just hearsay?
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  24

  “The Right to Shun: Ghent’s Misguided Jehovah’s Witness Decision“ Matthew P. Cavedon

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://canopyforum.org/2021/04/19/the-right-to-shun-ghents-misguided-jehovahs-witness-decision/.

  in march, the criminal court of ghent, belgium fined the congregation of jehovah’s witnesses (jw) for “inciting discrimination and hatred or violence against former members.” the case centered on the jw practice of “disfellowshipping.” while the court’s sensitivity to the individual impact of shunning is laudable, its decision regrettably assaults the freedoms of religion and association.. first, some background on jw beliefs and disfellowshipping.

  jw was founded in the united states over a century ago and is headquartered in new york state.

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  EdenOne

  Jehovah's Witnesses aren't really free self-determined agents. The very threat of disfellowshipping made to those who refuse to shun precludes that. Want to test it? Remove the mechanisms and threats of retaliation. Let's see how many keep on shunning of their own determination. And then we can start a conversation about the "right to shun".
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  58

  No more Questions from MINIMUS

  by was a new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  minimus former jw, prolific poster on jwn died.. minimus.

  joined 19 years ago.

  started 4,139 topics.

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  EdenOne

  RIP Minumus
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  20

  Resurrection after a death sentence in the OT?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question for those more versed in biblical history than i. .

  knowing that a belief in a resurrection on messianic times was a later jewish belief ... but still ... did the ot jews believe that someone served a capital punishment / death sentence would be elegible for future resurrection?.

  meaning: when coding the torah, did its writers intended that the capital punishment also be understood as an obliteration for all eternity?.

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  EdenOne

  It's still current. Pick up Insight On The Scriptures under entry "Expelled" and see for yourself.

  The biggest flaw I find in the analogy (besides the obvious lack of compassion) is that someone executed couldn't be rehabilitated, whereas JW's allow and incentive the reinstatement of disfellowshipped people. So the rethotic is all about fear and hatred, but not really consequential.

  There are, however, some details on the analogy that are worth noting: in ancient Israel, after stoning, the corpse was hung from a tree and put on public display until sunset. Hanging between earth and heaven was symbolic of rejection from both worlds. Humilliation and shame after death. Defilement of the memory of the deceased. Horror in the minds of the observers. That's what shunning after disfellowshipping is meant to accomplish to ex-JWs.

  
  

  In JW land, the shunning follows the disfellowshipped person even AFTER death. Regarding funeral procedures, a "wordly unbeliever" gets better treatment than an ex-JW to whom a funeral service conducted by a minister of religion is denied. So much for "all sins are forgiven in death" ...