Posts by johnamos

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

johnamos

Quote - try to improve your comprehension skills which are lacking as shown also by your poor understanding of the Society's reply - End quote

LOL!!! Sure thing, I will try to improve. Tell me please though, where have I shown a poor understanding to the 'Society's' reply as it relates to the excerpts that I am citing from them?

The Society states that the 70 years at Jeremiah 25:11,12 represents Babylon's greatest domination period:

[Isaiah’s Prophecy 1 p. 253-254 par. 21 – Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—]

Jehovah said that when those 70 years have been fulfilled he would call Babylon to account:

[Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’12“‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

The Society shows that Jehovah called Babylon to account in 539:

[8-1-81 WT p. 27-28 - “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]

Based on that I am showing that the 70 years are from 609 to 539, so please with your far more superior comprehension skills than I, tell me what I am not understanding based on what you are reading above.

Also, PLEASE answer these two questions:

Was Babylon the 3rd world power for 90 years or 70 years?

Did the nations serve Babylon for 90 years or 70 years?

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

johnamos

Quote - Jeremiah's prophecy herein is addressed to five surrounding nations of Judah and including the nation of Judah that they could escape Jehovah's judgement by submitting in servitude to the then reigning king, Nebuchadnezzer - End quote

If you think there were only FIVE, then read Jeremiah 25:17-29!

Quote - Jeremiah's texts of the seventy years are applicable to Judah alone - End quote

Not so!

[Jeremiah 25:11... and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years]

[Jeremiah 25:17 And I proceeded to take the cup out of the hand of Jehovah and to make all the nations drink to whom Jehovah had sent me]

Quote - There is simply no basis, in fact, to claim that the 70 years for Judah ended in 539 BCE or began in the fuzzy date of 609 BCE. - End quote

The basis is that the 70 year servitude for the nations (including Judah) was to be in subjection to Babylon.

Were the nations (including Judah) in subjection to Babylon when Assyria was still the 2nd world power?

No there were not, even Babylon itself would have been in subjection to Assyria.

Were the nations (including Judah) in subjection to Babylon when Babylon was the 3rd world power?

YES they were!

Were the nations (including Judah) in subjection to Babylon when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians? (Medo/Persia then became the 4th world power.)

No they were not!

You have read in the WTS excerpts that I cited that the 70 years 'represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination" and that that "domination ended for Babylon in 539 when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians". Therefore the servitude for the nations (including Judah) to be in subjection to Babylon had to be during the time of Babylon's greatest domination period as the 3rd world power which is the time period that the WTS says represents the 70 years, which is 609 - 539.

How is it that you say 609 is a fuzzy date? The WTS clearly state that the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination and that that domination ended for Babylon in 539. What is fuzzy about adding 70 years to 539 and arriving at the year 609?

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

johnamos

Did you read it? The point was/is that the nations serving Babylon is not based on them having do be destroyed or its residents having to be carted off to the location of Babylon. The nations serving was a result of recognizing that Babylon was the new world power and had authority over them. They became that 3rd world power with the battle in Haran when they overthrew once and for all Assyria (the then ruling 2nd world power)and that happen in 609.

Tell me something in your own words...you can clearly read that the WTS states that:

[Isaiah’s Prophecy 1 p. 253-254 par. 21 – He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.]

So tell me, since the 70 years mentioned in verse 11 and 12 is said to represent Babylon's greatest domination period and that period is said to have ended in 539, which logically means it started in 609, tell me, why does the WTS say that Jehovah called Babylon to account in 539 and Jehovah says that he would do so when 70 years have been fulfilled and yet you refuse to accept that the 70 years ended in 539?

[Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

[8-1-81 WT p. 27-28 - “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

johnamos

Additionally read Jeremiah 27:6-14 in regards to why I said:

"All the NATIONS started serving Babylon from the point that Babylon became the 3rd world power which was in 609 and the NATIONS stop serving Babylon when that empire ended which was in 539."

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

johnamos

scholar

Quote - The evidence indicates that the 70 years was a period of time of Babylon's domination over Judah with the Jews being deported to Babylon - End quote

LOL!!! Absolutely not.

[Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

Verse 11 says 'THESE NATIONS', that means all the nations at that time would have to serve Babylon those 70 years. And the fact that Jehovah said that when those 70 years had been fulfilled that he would then call Babylon to account proves that 539 must have been the 70th year being that that is the time that Babylon was brought to its end as the 3rd world empire. Add 70 to 539 and you get 609. What happen in 609? Babylon defeated Assyria which was then the ruling 2nd world empire. That means that Babylon was the ruling 3rd world empire for 70 years, from 609 to 539, which is what the WTS and secular chronology state.

[10-1-11 WT – Instead of saying 70 years “at Babylon,” many translations read “for Babylon.” (NIV) Some historians therefore claim that this 70-year period applies to the Babylonian Empire.]

[10-1-11 WT - According to secular chronology, the Babylonians dominated the land of ancient Judah and Jerusalem for some 70 years, from about 609 B.C.E. until 539 B.C.E. when the capital city of Babylon was captured.]

[Isaiah’s Prophecy 1 – …the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination…But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.]

Quote- The 70 years for Tyre only represent a period of Babylon's domination also we do not know the chronology for the domination of Tyre domination and is not identical with the 70 years of Jeremiah. - End quote

Yes Tyre is with the same 70 years of Jeremiah. Verse 11 of ch. 25 says 'THESE NATIONS' but reading down further you read the NATION mentioned by name and verse 22 mentions Tyre.

All the NATIONS started serving Babylon from the point that Babylon became the 3rd world power which was in 609 and the NATIONS stop serving Babylon when that empire ended which was in 539.That matches exactly with what Jehovah said, that the NATONS would serve Babylon 70 years and that is also what the WTS said when saying: "Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination"

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

johnamos

Quote - And as for the scripture at Jeremiah 29:10, every modern translation I looked at, except for ours, said that 70 years must be completed FOR Babylon, not at. - End quote

The WTS actually claims that the 70 years are FOR Babylon:

[Isaiah’s Prophecy 1 p. 253-254 par. 21 – He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.]

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102000039?q=%22the+70+years+represents+the+period+of+Babylonia%E2%80%99s+greatest+domination%22&p=par

Quote - and get some help researching my next rebuttal. - End quote

This is all you should need to ask the WTS:

(Q) When did Jehovah say he was going to call Babylon to account?

[Jeremiah 25:12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

(Q) What year did Jehovah call Babylon to account?

[8-1-81 WT p. 27-28 - “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]

Jehovah's appointed time to call Babylon to account was when 70 years had been fulfilled and being that he did so in 539 would mean the 539 must have been the 70th year of the 70 years, which would mean they began in 609. To claim that the 70 years were from 607 to 537 would make 539 the 68th year of those 70 years and it would mean that Jehovah jumped ahead of his own appointed time by 2 years, but according to the following that can't be the case, which means 607-537 is wrong and 609-539 is correct.

[11-15-98 WT p. 15-16 par.3 – We know that Jehovah is the Great Timekeeper, and we have confidence that he never fails to fulfill his purposes at his appointed time.]

154

Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto in

a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.

two days ago, i received a response from them.

i think this is gonna be the first of many.

johnamos

12

The United Nations / The counterfeit Kingdom of God .

by smiddy3 in

their was also an article in jw`s publications wt ?

that stated that the united nations was set up as the counterfeit kingdom of god to take away emphasis from the kingdom of god by christ jesus .

this is a paraphrase of what was stated however , "the un as a counterfeit kingdom of god" was stated.

johnamos

Fink, you are describing the present authority of the UN now and since it’s founding. But there will become a point to which the UN will be given absolute authority and that point will be due to WW3. The League of Nations came about due to WW1 and the UN due to WW2. Another war is what it will take to convince nations and peoples that the world needs the UN to act with such authority for the good of the world.

[Rev 13:1 And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea…5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it.]

Revelation 17:11 And the wild beast…it is also itself an eighth king…and it goes off into destruction…13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.]

That is what the Bible describes, but being that y'all here don't believe the Bible, then you can still see by George Bush, Walter Cronkite, Pope, etc that there is a goal to have the UN as THE world power (one world government).

Smiddy, Please don't imagine that the WTS being an NGO and or withdrawing from such when it came to light, is what made them part of the UN or not. They are still very much a part of it behind the scenes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner

[Ted Turner - As a philanthropist, he is known for his $1 billion gift to support the United Nations, which created the United Nations Foundation, a public charity to broaden domestic support for the UN. Turner serves as Chairman of the United Nations Foundation board of directors.]

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012926?q=%22ted+turner%22&p=par#h=22

[12-15 12 WT - In a selfish and nationalistic world, it is refreshing to find individuals who can and do look beyond national borders. Granted, overcoming prejudices can be difficult. The founder of the television network CNN, Ted Turner, comments about his work with a number of talented individuals from various nations: “Meeting with these people was an incredible experience. I came to see those from other countries not as ‘foreigners,’ but as fellow citizens of the planet. I began to view the word ‘foreign’ as pejorative and created a rule within CNN that the word could not be used either on air or in conversation around the office. Instead, the word ‘international’ was to be used.”]

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402012926?q=%22ted+turner%22&p=par#h=22

(Simplified) [12-15 12 WT - We live in a world where many people are selfish and think that their own nation is the best nation. But it is good to know that there are some who love people of all nations. Of course, it may take effort to change the way we think about other people. Ted Turner, who started the television network CNN, worked with talented people from around the world. He said: “I came to see those from other countries not as ‘foreigners,’ but as fellow citizens of the planet.” He made a rule that his employees were not allowed to use the word “foreign.” Instead, they were supposed to use the word “international.”]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRK0Lx8HVU0

12

The United Nations / The counterfeit Kingdom of God .

by smiddy3 in

their was also an article in jw`s publications wt ?

that stated that the united nations was set up as the counterfeit kingdom of god to take away emphasis from the kingdom of god by christ jesus .

this is a paraphrase of what was stated however , "the un as a counterfeit kingdom of god" was stated.

johnamos

Quote - The UN does not have authoritative power over all other nations, therefore it is not a global world power. – End quote

Well, Well, Well! For all you doubters, please note the following:

[Revelation 17:11 And the wild beast…it is also itself an eighth king…and it goes off into destruction…13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.]

[1-15-00 WT – Here the apostle John mentions seven kings, representing seven world powers—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Anglo-American dual world power. He also sees “an eighth king” that “springs from the seven.” This eighth king—the last one that John envisions—now represents the United Nations. John says that this eighth king “goes off into destruction,” after which no further earthly kings are mentioned.]

[Revelation Climax – As John soon learns, the time will come when the UN will act with considerable authority. Then it, in its turn, “goes off into destruction.”]

[6-15-12 WT – Any power it (8th king/U.N.) has comes from its member nations, especially from its key backer, the Anglo-American World Power. (Rev. 17:10, 11) But it does receive authority to act as a king to carry out a specific task, one that triggers a chain of events that will change history.]

[Rev 13:1 And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea…5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it.]

Okay, now putting the Bible and WTS references aside, view/listen and read ALL of the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DtEcZ3cfg4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfgFvdSPF70

https://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/item/32245-pope-francis-calls-for-end-of-sovereignty-and-establishment-of-global-government

8

D Day and its Silent Witness sinks the WT

by Slidin Fast in

jw
friends

today, of all days brands the whole the wt org and all of its basic ideas as wrong and misguided.. why?

firstly, the veterans of d day have been on our screens, modestly talking of their part in the liberation of france on this day in 1944 are a quiet witness to the preposterousness of the generations doctrine.

there is no manipulation of the wt interpretation of the generation prophecy that can trump that fact.. these modest men and women are all in their 90s and it is acknowledged that this will be the last celebration that they will attend.. secondly, nobody likes war, nobody wants the loss of life that occurred but who, looking back would argue that the job started on that day di not need doing and that the freedom that its success gave europe and the world was a bad thing.

johnamos

quote - … God /Jehovah did because he was so involved directly and indirectly in so many wars as recorded in the Old testament which is Gods word isn`t it ? - end quote

Imagine that, Jehovah chose to have recorded in the Old testament all the information about the wars that you say he was directly and indirectly involved in.