i thought i would bring this to the horde.
there is wisdom in the multitude of counselors after all.
this scripture has been given to me as "irrefutable", in a discussion i am rather enjoyign with someone fairly high up, that has their doubts.
Refers to the Assyrian destruction of Israel in 722 BC and its aftermath --- Judah as sole authoritative cult of Yahweh and his laws.
Get real people, and let's start being honest to the texts and their authors, and the historical crisis that prompted these authors to write what they did in the first place. http://contradictionsinthebible.com
it's occurred to me that i have been reshaped by the books i have read, taking my new knowledge for granted, and forgetting that those around me have not been on the same journey.
as a consequence sparks fly, as iron sharpening iron, as we strive to understand each other (or to insist that we are not the same).
there are a few books that stand out, as i refer to them over and over again.
Ok then:
The Dancing Wu-li Masters, Gary Zukav
Did God have a Wife?, William Dever
Endgame, Samuel Beckett
David's Secret Demons, Baruch Halpern
Reading the Fractures of Gensis, David Carr
The Bible's Hidden Authors and the Contradictory Stories and Histories They Wrote, (ahem), forthcoming by moi
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-r-coats/whats-real-about-the-rapt_b_716688.html.
this is an interesting article posted by the christian left from thw huffington post.
i know jehovah's witnesses do not teach the rapture (except maybe for the 144,000) so all of them expect to live through the tribulation (whatever that was to them).
The non-event "happened" in 54 AD as Paul himself thought it would. Period! This, with a long line of other Bible passages have been appropriated by modern abusers. Here's the passage and my own translation and notes, which Are part of a new translation of Pau l's letters I'm working on (don't fret I have been schooled for this and have me credentials).
1 Thess 4:15 For this we say to you in the word of the Lord: that we1 who are alive, we who are left at the Lord’s coming, will not precede those who have died; 16 that the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet-blast of God,2 and the dead in Christ will rise first, 17 then we who are alive, who are left, will be snatched up3 together with them in the clouds at the meeting of the Lord in the air;4 and thus we will be with the Lord forever.
1. The use of the 1 st person plural "we" here and in verse 17 clearly displays that Paul believed that he himself would be "one of the living," "one of those who were left standing" at Jesus’ parousia. It was that imminent for Paul, and thus perhaps why the death of some of the Thessalonians were surprising given the shortness of time believed to be left before Jesus was to come.
2. Paul accesses current apocalyptic imagery that would have been available to him through the apocalyptic literature already penned in the first-century or the apocalyptic fervor "in the air." For the latter, see Josephus.
3. The Greek verb ?ρπ?ζω (harpazo) can mean: ‘to take away,’ ‘to catch up,’ or ‘to snatch.’ In Jerome’s Latin translation the verb is raptio, ‘to seize’ or ‘to take,’ whence the modern (mis)appropriation as ‘the rapture.’ What is, however, perhaps more significant is that Paul uses this phrase (or image) for the living. The term was typically used in the Greco-Roman context for mourners to lament how the deceased was "snatched away" by Death. So in a consolatory manner, Paul has combined the fates of the already dead Thessalonians and those who are living—both of whom will be "snatched away" from death! It might be argued, furthermore, that those who are living, those who remain alive at Jesus’ parousia, are nonetheless reckoned already ‘dead’ via the rite of baptism, which has buried them with Christ (see Rom 6:1-5).
4. The image is rather bizarre, but there are precedents in Jewish apocalyptic literature. Those who have been "snatched away" from death are also, in the apocalyptic event, snatched away from the "wrath of God" (5:9) that will presumably scourge the earth.
for those who have been following some of my posts over at http://contradictionsinthebible.com we have just started to look at and study the abraham< ishamel, and isaac stories and their different textual traditions.
after that we will look at the jacob cycles.
anyone interested in moving through the books of the bible, please follow alon and share.. we' ve spent our first month on genesis and only got to gen 15. i imagine another 2 months on genesis before we hit exodus.. thanks for all the support.
For those who have been following some of my posts over at http://contradictionsinthebible.com we have just started to look at and study the Abraham< Ishamel, and Isaac stories and their different textual traditions. After that we will look at the Jacob cycles. Anyone interested in moving through the books of the Bible, please follow alon and share.
We' ve spent our first month on Genesis and only got to Gen 15. I imagine another 2 months on Genesis before we hit Exodus.
Thanks for all the support. I've received some great comments over thers. .....
and how would you know or not know.
read and respond http://contradictionsinthebible.com/how-do-we-know-that-the-biblical-writers-were-not-writing-history/.
Thanks for the support folks. A couple of comments on the site would be appreciated I thought this would fuel more controversy.
and how would you know or not know.
read and respond http://contradictionsinthebible.com/how-do-we-know-that-the-biblical-writers-were-not-writing-history/.
And how would you know or not know. Read and respond http://contradictionsinthebible.com/how-do-we-know-that-the-biblical-writers-were-not-writing-history/
here's a good one for you, looking at gen 17 and paul's subversive interpretive practices.
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/is-the-covenant-of-circumcision-an-eternal-covenant-or-not/.
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Actually it was done to make and preserve an ethnic distinction, while Paul on the other hand sought to do just the opposite. Here's an excerpt from my post:
The former text (Gen 17) was written to reaffirm and safeguard ethnic identity and Yahweh's "eternal" covenant to a Jewish people currently sitting in exile in Babylon wondering if their god would keep his covenantal promise to return them to their land (see contradictions #28-30). The latter (Galatians) was written to deconstruct ethnic and religious boundaries and identities in a strife-ridden pluralistic geopolitical world under a single ruler.
here's a good one for you, looking at gen 17 and paul's subversive interpretive practices.
http://contradictionsinthebible.com/is-the-covenant-of-circumcision-an-eternal-covenant-or-not/.
.
Here's a good one for you, looking at Gen 17 and Paul's subversive interpretive practices. http://contradictionsinthebible.com/is-the-covenant-of-circumcision-an-eternal-covenant-or-not/
this is a distilled (and from memory) reconstruction of a chat this morning.... my 81 year old ex-baptist minister friend dub and i went to starbucks for coffee and conversation.
dub likes to start conversations with strangers.. today a seminary student caught his eye.
they talked for about half an hour before dub dropped me into it.
Love your response to the first question. Well articulated and thoughtful.
the bible this; the bible that; 'tis the word of the almighty.
we all be following its every word... blah, blah, blah.
many biblical scholars lament the fact that the bible is the most misunderstood, abused, and appropriated text by numerous different religious communities, each one claiming to provide its right interpretation, while ironically supporting their own belief system.
