Posts by Journeyman

107

C/O's in the UK

by jookbeard in

anyone got any info of c/o's in the uk ?

a small list etc?.

Journeyman

Michael Purbrick was never liked in our congregation, everyone glad to see the back of him.

I don't know anyone who's ever said otherwise! He's the only person - CO, elder or anyone else in a JW congregation - that I've never heard anyone have a good word for!

The only thing I can say in his favour is that he was a very good speaker.

I remember him giving a talk about the impalement of Jesus, and his ability to paint the picture of the last hours of Jesus' life, including the nails being driven into him and the likely effect on his heart of the pressure of being suspended so long on the stake (or cross, if you prefer) causing the heart muscles to rupture and produce the "blood and water" separation the Bible refers to, was very vivid and dramatic.

Especially now in these days of 30 minute public talks, and items and 'symposium' parts which are so salami-sliced and dumbed down, I miss those captivating speakers who could hold an audience for 45 minutes or more without needing to resort to a script of Q&A questions or, even worse, a video or animation.

However, of course the main point of a CO should be that he can do the pastoral care part well - encouraging and supporting everyone in the congregation - and Purbrick had no gifts in that department at all!

In reality, most COs are just administrators - like regional sales auditors sent in to assess overall performance and report back to the branch. But it's a bonus when you do find one who actually seems to care for people, not just numbers and rules.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Spacey, Schofield, Evans - The root of the problem in all of them is the same: denial of the true facts or extent of their fault or failings, stemming from egotism.

Instead of just putting their hands up and saying "Yes, I did something wrong, I'm sorry and I want to make amends", the excuses follow the same sort of pattern with such people.

First it's some form of denial like:

"No, I've done nothing actually WRONG, I've been misunderstood."
"No, I've done nothing actually WRONG, it's my haters spreading lies."

Then if the pressure to admit the truth continues, it becomes downplaying and deflection of blame:

"Ok, I may have done something wrong but I just made a mistake, a slight misjudgement."
"Ok, I may have done something wrong but I'm not well (mental health, 'stress', or other vaguely defined 'condition')."
"Ok, I may have done something wrong but I was influenced by [my parents or upbringing/genetics/society/my peers]"
"Ok, I may have done something wrong but I was badly advised by my [friends/partner/business associates]."
"Ok, I may have done something wrong but now I'm being hounded for it by my enemies who want to destroy me."
"Ok, I may have done something wrong but now you're just trying to persecute me because you're prejudiced that I'm [poor/black/foreign/disabled/gay/bi/non-binary/trans - insert minority group I identify with]."
"Ok, I may have done something wrong but I'm not as bad as the people who [rape kids/slaughter animals/traffick people/etc]"

5

"Fully Accomplish Your Ministry"—2 Timothy 4:5

by Silentslayer in

jw
friends

helloo guys, anyone who did theyre pioneer school book and still got their notes from it?

please share with me , i need answers asap , pioneer school coming up in 2 weeks thank you!

i need answers from when you were fully pimi.

Journeyman

It was a long time ago that I was at pioneer school, and like everything else since GB2.0 took full control, I believe it's been dumbed down (they've changed the course and produced a new book with fewer sections, removed the actual ministry part and reduced it to just one week, I think?) - so any notes I might still have wouldn't be relevant anymore.

107

C/O's in the UK

by jookbeard in

anyone got any info of c/o's in the uk ?

a small list etc?.

Journeyman

Found this list on another thread from years ago, which I've adjusted to show the names better. It's from 2006, so I wonder how many of these have since been put out to pasture, or are perhaps not even JWs today? Maybe a few are pushing up the daisies by now.

Some familiar names there - Jolly, Storer, Birtles, Ainge, Rastall, Stokes, Spurr, Irons, Purbrick, Algar.

Vigo and Drage are familiar names from earlier comments too, of course. Also Doug Beavor.

Doug Turnbull. - Probably best not to mention what happened to him.

Didn't he abandon his wife and run off with a sister sometime in the 70s while serving up north?

5

Today's WT Study: "By This All Will Know That You Are My Disciples". Hmmmm. . . . . . . .🤨

by HiddlesWife in

one of my close pimo relatives showed me the article and spoke about today's study.

she was disturbed concerning the points/statements within it, such as: "so, the more we get to know those in the congregation, the more likely we are to see more of their flaws.

sadly, some have allowed the imperfections of others to stumble them.

Journeyman

The scripture from the article is Prov. 26:20 not Prov. 26:30, which in NWT reads: "Where there is no wood, the fire goes out, And where there is no slanderer, quarreling ceases."

I don't see what's so controversial here to rile your relative. I agree with your point that Matthew 5:23,24 is about straightening out problems with others in the congregation, and the org does still use that verse too. But I don't see anything wrong with suggesting people think seriously about Prov 26:20 first.

In other words, first think "Is this really such a big deal, or can I forget about it, to prevent possibly causing an even bigger issue and making things blow out of proportion?" (the Proverbs 26:20 bit - don't fuel the fire and don't be tempted to diss/slander the person you've have an issue with to others).

But if you decide, "no I can't just leave it I have to say something", maybe because the other person is affected by the difference you had, or it's damaging your relationship with them, then Matthew 5:23,24 comes into play and you discuss the issue with the person directly.

I see them as complementary points, not contradictory or opposites. Also, the context of that paragraph in the WT was if we think someone has offended us, not if someone else has something against us, so maybe that's why they didn't use Matthew 5 there.

Of course, the above reasoning should be obvious without needing scriptures to back it up (many people with no Bible knowledge or interest apply the same principles in their life), but those verses do support the basic ideas behind conflict resolution.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

People that go too far don't sound credible, they make themselves sound like nutters.

I agree. However much I may enjoy seeing our 'friend' held to account for the things he's clearly done wrong, I can't condone the behaviour of that Lisa Sami. They sound like the kind of crazed vigilante who used to get on the news here in the UK for showing up as part of a mob outside the home of some old man living alone on a housing estate who they'd all decided was a 'paedo', baying for blood outside and smashing his windows.

It probably suits his agenda to have someone making accusations like that.

You're right that his personality is such that he can't resist trying to take on any opposition (whether real or perceived), and he will also use extremists like that to play up his supposed 'victim' status. Notice he went straight for the tired old "see what Kim Silvio has unleashed" mantra again.

Sounds like he went to watch the FA cup ... on a telly?

Back in the UK on another trip/holiday, eh? Clearly his financial status can't be that bad, nor is his work schedule as packed as he was recently making out. Didn't he say he was "swamped" with JW material to work on?

But how did he manage to find a pub in England that seemed so empty on a Saturday afternoon, especially one that's an FA Cup Final day?! Unless it was his natural charm and magnetism at work again, driving the other punters away!

18

JWs view of Lord of the Rings VS Harry Potter

by serotonin_wraith in

jw
friends

i'm sure this will vary between jw to jw, but their choices are:.

1) they won't watch/read either.. 2) they will only allow lotr, not hp.. 3) they will only allow hp, not lotr.. 4) they will allow both.. in my experience, 3 never happens and 2 happens the most.

with the similar theme of magic, the occult, fantasy and monsters, i wonder what lets them think one is okay and the other is not.

Journeyman

Indeed.

As I said earlier, The Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia have a lot in common in that respect.

One the one hand, that makes them both more acceptable to some Christians, while for others it makes them both taboo for others, as they see them as a mockery or false imitation of the Bible and its message.

Based on the strict interpretation of JW theology neither should be entertainment for JWs, but then every Witness has their own understanding of what is 'acceptable' for entertainment like this (contrary to the idea the org promotes that there is total unity among them).

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Today, the 3rd day of June, marks a certain anniversary!

On this ~~suspicious~~ auspicious day, based on a simplified plotting of the Patreon stats, I also give you the rollercoaster ride of LE patrons - the journey so far, from the high to the lows!

21 Nov 2021 - peaked at 896
31 May 2022 - down to 531 (-365)
01 Jan 2023 - lowest level at 387 (-144)
31 Jan 2023 - briefly up to 423 (+36)
01 Apr 2023 - back to joint lowest level 387 (-36)
07 Apr 2023 - after "Things are bad" video, up to 531 (+144)
21 Apr 2023 - recent peak at 593 (+62)
01 May 2023 - down to 564 (-29)
02 Jun 2023 - down to 526 (-38)
03 Jun 2023 - (@0600 UTC) up to 531 (+5)

So the overall deficit to date from his peak of 896 patrons is -365, putting him back to where he last was just over a year ago around 31 May 2022.

As you can see from his lowest point so far (1 January/1 April 2023), that means he's so far only recouped 144 of the total 509 patrons lost from his peak in 2021 (that's just over a quarter), and the numbers had been dropping again in the past six weeks.

18

JWs view of Lord of the Rings VS Harry Potter

by serotonin_wraith in

jw
friends

i'm sure this will vary between jw to jw, but their choices are:.

1) they won't watch/read either.. 2) they will only allow lotr, not hp.. 3) they will only allow hp, not lotr.. 4) they will allow both.. in my experience, 3 never happens and 2 happens the most.

with the similar theme of magic, the occult, fantasy and monsters, i wonder what lets them think one is okay and the other is not.

Journeyman

I was always fine with LotR, but hated HP. I found the hype over it way too much (and still do). As to why LotR seems more 'acceptable' to JWs and/or Christians in general than HP, I think I agree largely with Fellbeast.

Another British fantasy/magic series which has (sadly, IMO) been overshadowed in the last 20 years or so by all the hysteria around HP is The Chronicles of Narnia, which is more like LotR in containing epic themes of the battle between Good (God) and Evil (Satan), with fantastical races and creatures, and with CS Lewis' religious background playing heavily into the concepts and characters.

The stories of Narnia are probably more acceptable to JWs too, given that Good triumphs over Evil, that they contain themes and ideas very similar to Bible ones, and that Lewis himself was Christian. Although that in turn may make some stricter JWs reject it.

53

What`s the reason some of you think JW`s are in decline ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

from what i can see no such thing is happening.i became a jw in 1960 and remained for about 30 years and the numbers of active jw`s today in the world are far greater than they were back then.. and here in australia the numbers are much higher than they were back then .. so i don`t see that their in decline or have any worries about losing support .. don`t the numbers speak for themselves ?.

is it just wishful thinking on your part ?.

Journeyman

Excellent comments, Magnum. Some of the most pertinent points to me are:

It used to appeal to intelligent, thinking, reasonable, stable, successful, discerning people, but not anymore.

Of course, some will disagree and claim that most or all JWs have always been unhinged or idiots, but I think what you say is true. Many JWs I grew up around many years ago at least used to enjoy learning, reading fairly challenging and stimulating material and debating with others about Biblical, moral or spiritual subjects. True, not many JWs have ever been in the top sectors of society in terms of graduates and leaders, but there were enough who were at least thoughtful and lucid enough to give some credibility to the society. Today, that's definitely no longer the case.

If JWdom were what it claims to be, the internet would have been a great asset - a great tool for the advancement of "the truth." Ironically, JWs claim to be lovers of light, whereas the org actually wants/loves darkness.

Indeed. Where GB1.0 were cautious and even perhaps suspicious of new technology, GB2.0 probably thought they could embrace it and bring a modern angle to JW life, and possible attract a lot of young new tech-savvy members in. To some extent they have, with a few young go-getters in the Bethels and most city circuits at least have a couple of young ones like that, but what they've got is 'gloss' (TV channel, fancy logo and videos) at the cost of depth (mental, emotional and spiritual), and it's far less attractive to outsiders.

The biggest failing with the increased scrutiny of the internet age has been the failure to apologise for, and turn away from, some of the most bizarre, outdated and extreme aspects of their doctrine and history. If they had been far more transparent around the turn of 2000, they may have seen a dip in members for a few years, but that could have begun steadily recovering if they'd had a proper doctrinal and procedural "reset".

The JW "preaching" work is now a lame, puny, faint whisper. [..] where is the clear, bold warning?

Definitely. In line with the above, it's more as though they are circling the wagons and becoming more insular, rather than opening up and trying to gather as many "honest-hearted, sheeplike" ones in while the time is "favourable", according to their supposed beliefs.

JWdom is a mere shadow of its former self. [...] It is no longer proactive; it is now just reactive.

Agreed, and sadly, the only two ways I can see of the current GB trying to regain the initiative and lift the JW membership, is either with more 'gloss' (like their slick but superficial video productions), or by stoking up the "end times", possibly by hyping "the coming attack on Babylon the Great" and the "preaching of a hailstone message". That will only accelerate their decline, as most people will back away from that and it will only gain them more negative publicity.