Posts by Journeyman

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Are the end of month numbers we see every month just a report of the number of contributors he has at that point in time? Or can we see the additions and subtractions?

AFAIK, there is no way for someone who is not the account holder to see any breakdown of patrons, but I'm not familiar with how the site works as I've never been a member. Someone else may know better.

His low point so far was 387 patrons, a number he fell to twice within four months (Jan-Apr this year).

I think we can assume that the vast majority of his increase since then is from new patrons, although it's impossible to know how many of those are people who had previously been following him on YouTube but had not signed up, versus those who are totally new to his channel. At the current number (today down to 503) that means 116 of his patrons are newer signups (since April this year).

Those 116 at least are probably quite volatile as they may feel at any time they are no longer willing or able to give money to support what he is doing. Even those who have been following him for some time but paying nothing may decide to withdraw financial support if they feel it's not worth it or they can no longer afford to do so. Several who began paying him after his begging video said their financial situation was difficult but they were persuaded by his pleadings to contribute.

14

Observation

by pontoon in

haven't been to a meeting in 13 years.

family that lives 1300 miles away doesn't know.

just visited them and here is what i observed.

Journeyman

I agree with the OP.

A lot of the chatter, if it is about anything to do with the religion rather than the people, is about the 'original songs' (ugh), what a good meeting or Watchtower article the last one was (usually said immediately after the meeting, regardless of what the content was) or how encouraging the last JW broadcast was. It's quite telling how often someone says how great a meeting or talk was but then admits they can't remember the detail, or if pressed, is unable to give a specific example of something "upbuilding" from it.

Fortunately, even discussions of the broadcasts seems to be dying out. It was a real nightmare when they first introduced the JW ~~televangelist~~ Broadcasting channel because every month with each new episode, most of the congregation would go crazy with asking each other "have you seen the latest broadcast? So encouraging. What was your favourite part? What did you think of..." and wanting to share their thoughts on whatever was said. I haven't heard anything like that since the return to face-to-face meetings after the COVID lockdown.

The other main topic is along the lines of "the end can't be far off now because things are so bad/everyone is struggling so much/the news is so horrible" etc.

In contrast to what smiddy said (and what I remember), very little time now is spent talking about actual scriptures in depth, or details of the lives of Bible characters like Paul, Jesus or whoever.

6

NOBODY can get Holy Spirit - except via the G.B.....

by BoogerMan in

...according to bro.

tony evans, district overseer, @ the voyager school assembly, peterborough, uk 10-2-13:.

"jehovah does not give holy spirit, apart from the scriptures.

Journeyman

I live within easy walking distance of the Voyager. (Bloody stupid name).

Sounds like it was going to be shot into space (and probably a lot of locals thought it should be!)

I hate poncey names like that but sadly it seems they're getting more common for what are basically bog standard primary and comprehensive schools (oh sorry, they're mostly called 'academies' now aren't they ).

93

Regional Convention Attendance

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

Journeyman

Not long ago, WTC "reassigned" some seasoned Convention Dept personnel.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that. I knew some here in the UK who were heavily involved with the old Twickenham conventions for years, being in the "control room" for the duration of events, but they were all suddenly replaced one year. Likewise with the attendant security teams who used to watch the entrances for interlopers and activist 'apostates'.

Again, I think that started with the reorganisation of things after the 2014 international convention. After that, London Bethel stopped using Twickenham rugby stadium and switched to the Excel conference centre, and then a couple of years later brought in completely new convention management personnel from the new Chelmsford complex, I believe. One elder and attendant captain I know was quite upset to be suddenly dropped after many years. Understandable he felt overlooked, but rather sad that that had become a defining role in his life though. He should've known better than to expect any kind of loyalty from the WT hierarchy!

36

Anyone know what this sculpture is of the "torture stake?"

by charity7 in

hey guys!

i'm new on this site and am a non jw here married to a jw.

my husband's family are active members and they daily post articles on facebook from jw.org which i know is meant for me to see and read.

Journeyman

My stance is that to me that's not relevant. If you believe or not in Jesus, how is his sacrifice affected by the position in which he was murdered?

I agree with this. I don't see it's such a big issue. Whether he died on a cross or a stake is irrelevant to the meaning behind his death.

Yes, it has to fit the type of death ordered at Deuteronomy 21:22–23 and restated at Galatians 3:13, but there is debate over whether that meant only a single pole/stake or could include a crossbeam, so either means of execution could still fulfil that scripture. The additional points about the sign being placed over his head, and about "nails" (plural) being referred to do tend to suggest a crossbeam, but not necessarily.

Even in the debate over whether to wear a crucifix or bow before images of Christ crucified, the reality of whether it should be a stake or cross depicted does not matter - the principle is about using the objects themselves as the focus your worship. The illustration often given by the org was "would you wear/bow before an image of a gun if your parents had been murdered by a gunman?" but that principle would apply just as much whatever the murder weapon.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

Lloyd won't fully commit to mastering the black art of penis control until he hits 300 patrons.

Maybe if/when his numbers drop below 400 again, we should send him a copy of this to help with his "studies"...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50809845-mastery-of-the-penis

7

Study Article 22

by Jerryh in

.

Journeyman

Yes, it seems that article will be studied on the week of July 24th, so for most congs that would be Sunday July 30th.

I'm not sure what you mean about there being no matching "answers" for the paragraphs? When I look up the electronic article I can see the usual content. Here's paragraph 15 where 1919 is mentioned:

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Journeyman

I suggest waiting until the first working day after the drop to finalise the numbers. On working days, give it to the end of the next working day.

I'd be more specific - just set a time as a deadline. If you express it in UTC we can all work it out according to where our timezones are, and it will give us all a single point in time as a reference to aim for, regardless of whether his total goes up or down a bit before or after that. So for example, August 2nd at 08:00 UTC, perhaps.

I'm not sure exactly when the main update of monthly accounts happens at Patreon. Someone said it was by San Francisco time, but that is -8hrs from where I am in the UK and the big change in his numbers happened around early afternoon of July 1st my time, which is about 6-7am in SF, so I don't know.

Otherwise, yes, why not keep this going as a monthly contest, at least until we all get bored of it, or until LE quits - whichever happens first!

10

R & F JW's ARE agents of the org....

by BoogerMan in

....despite the cult's denials.. w51 6/15 p. 378 par.

23 the spirit, the organization, and the word - his theocratic organization recognizes your authority from his word, the bible.

so it uses you as one of its representatives in the field and it co-operates with you, supplies your needs, and renders you assistance..

Journeyman

Good points, Anony Mous.

One of the significant differences between the JW org and other churches is that most other religious organisations do not require every member to actively preach to the public, providing specific tools, direction and training for this express purpose. In doing so, the JW org effectively makes 'publishers' agents of the org, and that's especially true of pioneers, elders, Bethel volunteers and others who go even further in acting on behalf of Watch Tower in their locality.

However, I think the OP's use of a 1951 WT reference to try and highlight the association is flawed due to its age making it less relevant. More relevant would be similar quotes in the current Organised book (I'm not sure if there are any off the top of my head). I would suspect that most damning for establishing an inference of congregation members acting as agents of the WTBTS are recent branch letters to COs and bodies of elders, and the contents of the Shepherd the Flock book. These show clearly that there are procedures, direct instructions and lines of communication from the top of the org down to local levels which are expected to be followed without question or local reinterpretation.

93

Regional Convention Attendance

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

elder friend of mine texted me asking what my rc attendance was 2 weeks ago (family and i streamed it since wife is not well).

he told me that his rc in the jersey city assembly hall last weekend was low.

co told them that around 2600 were the total from 16+ congs that were assigned.

Journeyman

The WTBTS Convention Committee is hardly competent enough to organize small venues of between 4,000 to 5,000 attendees.

The thing is, the old version of the org at least used to be very good at running these things. Considering they also used to have a bookroom and releases to give out, food to distribute and so on, the whole thing used to be a (relatively) slick and well-oiled machine, even in huge arenas and stadiums. I remember working at a few back in the 90s and early 2000s which seemed very different. Today, it seems they can't even organise and run small events of a couple of thousands properly.

I suspect that some of the factors that have caused that are that there are more stifling rules and fewer capable brothers around - others have pointed out that the "old" org used to attract brothers who were at least fairly competent organisers and had some basic skills. Some were war veterans and many had run businesses or been involved in other more complex work before becoming JWs, rather than being born-ins who'd only ever aspired to pioneer or go to Bethel.

The last time we had major conventions were the internationals in 2014 I think, which is nearly a decade ago now. The org is talking about having more internationals next year, but I'd be surprised if they are as well organised or well attended, and feel as interesting or important as the 2014 conventions (I think they were still called district conventions then?)

The so called bible character based videos were notable in just having the actors ruminate on imaginary scenarios cooked up in Warwick to strengthen their argument.
[...]
The main feature length drama was strange.

That's another important factor. Videos now have become so commonplace as to be boring, and the content of many is very dumbed down or unbelievable.

I remember the impact the resurrection video had at the 2014 convention - some of you may recall it - the one featuring the JW woman whose sister had died in hospital, and how it went from her being wheeled into the operating theatre to her dying, then later her being reunited with her sister in the resurrection. Cheesy, perhaps, but actually it was done quite well and it had a very dramatic impact. Many bros and sisters were crying. It was one of the first convention videos (if not the first?) and the impact was on the basis of "less is more" - there was no attempt at tacky dialogue, or making a soap opera style story like Neeta and Jade or this year's offering. Compared to now when every flipping item has a pointless video segment.