Posts by Journeyman

9

UK BETHEL INAGUARATION 2024

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

https://youtu.be/oayukvpgoxw?si=g2020ba-xd2kytxi.

this is the 20 min review audio of the 3 hour inaguaration of the british bethel that took place few days ago....

Journeyman

They make so much fuss about mere buildings.

It's fascinating - they talk often about valuing their "spiritual heritage", yet when it suits them, they drop huge areas of their history without a second thought.

After decades of hype about Brooklyn and Mill Hill, at a stroke those locations are sold off and consigned to history. "Dedicated" facilities are dumped from Jehovah's service and sold off to the highest bidder, even if it's a "worldy" corporation or "false" religious organisation. Yet now, we are expected to rave about Walkill, Warwick, Chelmsford, the coming development at Ramapo, etc.

Past "Kingdom Songs" - after years of exorting the R&F to learn them by heart, practice them in their spare time and listen to them at home - are silenced forever, never even played as an occasional "nostalgia" playlist or in private "gatherings"

Previous study publications, while exalted for the numbers of disciples they produce while in use, are removed completely from print and rarely ever spoken of or featured again, except in the occasional "history of the Org" flashback video.

And of course, when praising faithful pioneers, etc, from past decades, including those still "serving" as elderly ones today, nothing is admitted of the fact that for all those years of preaching and teaching, they were effectively teaching many doctrines that are now considered "false" or "old light".

17

How has 3 years of inflation affected WTC?

by ThomasMore in

the current u.s. administration and the fed says inflation is hard to tame.

it was over 9% at it's peak.

one of the greatest increases is price of food, something that everyone feels to some extent.

Journeyman

I have been thinking for some time that the trend of the Org away from having their own self-sufficient resources to using "worldy" organisations seems to run counter to their supposed preparation for the end of "this system", and the idea of being separate from "the world" as much as possible.

In recent years, they've largely given up their own farms, their own vehicle fleets, and so on, in favour of using worldly companies and suppliers. As a result, they are now much more at the mercy of inflation and changes in markets and world trade or politics.

We know, of course, that it was driven by their own short-term financial view, shedding "costs" as much as possible now, but without thinking of the future - especially if you really do believe "the system" is going to go into collapse.

Just like those nutty survivalists who stockpile food, fuel, guns and so on for some anticipated "showdown" with the authorities in the future, while the expectation may seen crazy, there is at least some logic to the principle of stockpiling necessities for self-sufficiency. Then, when times get hard, you have more to share and live off.

As a result, are they becoming like the "foolish virgins" of the parable who, when the time came for them to be ready to meet the Groom, had no oil for their lamps and so got caught out? Their concern over saving money and trying to shed assets so that courts and governments can't strip them, is likely to leave them "naked" both spiritually and materially in future.

31

First video from the convention is all about FEAR

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/cdzydtuoblw?si=tyr8hgdgaiyn7c4h.

this was leaked only few days ago and it's a small segment of the video from the 2024 convention that has already started.

the video shows a jw logo down while worried jws are watching it as a news item on their tv screens, others are seen hiding from the police, others driving is the countryside to escape the authorities.

Journeyman

I asked her where she planned on going and she said Chelmsford. We will all hire congregation buses to get there. I asked her if she thought they would have facilities for 130,000+ permanent visitors. She thought they would have!

Not only is that silly from the point of view of how scaled back the Chelmsford development is, it's also ludicrous to think a mass movement like that could be done without being noticed by "the authorities", assuming said "authorities" were bent on hunting down JWs.

The Org has hardly been secretive about Chelmsford, so of course the local council, police, etc, know perfectly well where the site is, what is located there, what its capacity is, what roads and public transport lead there, and so on. And as the video shows, Witnesses are supposed to be travelling there with their mobile phones and tablets on, thus acting as perfect homing beacons for the authorities, should they wish to track these "outlaw" religionists!

The whole idea is absurd, and not at all supported by Scripture, except as a flight of fancy extrapolated from the verse that speaks of going "into your interior rooms" to avoid the "denunciation".

At one time this was interpreted to mean each Witness or family hiding in their own homes, then it was thought to mean the Kingdom Halls, but now they're closing many of those, it's back to some strange hybrid interpretation of groups in homes or other JW buildings.

6

77 years ago today, Watchtower admits 'they were truly supporting the war effort' in Australia

by was a new boy in

other commercial enterprises were opened up under the.

direction of those at the branch office, and the brethren.

were asked to operate sawmills, bakeries, numerous farms.

Journeyman

From my own understanding in the land Downunder, my take is that it was not a mea culpa by the GB

Ah, that makes more sense - that it was more like a bollocking given to the leadership of a branch office. Still, it's unusual to give publicity to such a high-level roasting. Unless of course, they knew they couldn't cover it up or explain it away, so they decided the best option was to blame the "errors" of local branch officials.

16

Do you recognize the Truth? Watchtower July, 2024

by Listener in

the stated focus of this study article is.

focustraining ourselves to discern the difference between the truth we have learned from jehovah and the falsehoods promoted by satan and our opposers.. of course, the article goes on to claim that the truth is not only in the bible, but also from the watchtower organization.

the first of two qualities needed to discern truth is -.

Journeyman

Blondie highlights the change of emphasis in the way the Org has used Acts 17:11 since the early 1980s.

However, the fact is that the verse still indicates that the Beroeans were evaluating what they were told, in the context of what the Scriptures actually say.

The 'explanation' quoted in the WT article from 1981 still doesn't wash. It's not really relevant whether you are reading 'critically' or with a desire to believe and trust. Even if you want to believe what you are told and you are intending to give the speaker "the benefit of the doubt", you should still be evaluating what you are told in light of what the scriptures actually say. For example, if a friend tells me something is a fact, I may really want to believe them, but if I check what they say in an encyclopaedia and it's wrong, it's still wrong.

But that's not what the GB want. They want the reader to evaluate the scriptures in light of what they say - so that their explanation should come before, and be the filter through which, the reader interprets or understands the Bible. That's the exact opposite of what Acts says the Beroeans were doing when hearing Paul's words, and it commends them for doing so!

I suspect that's why in recent years, even in the time since I became a JW, the WT use of this scripture has dwindled away because they've realised that it is awkward for them.

When I was studying, and later when I first was teaching others, Acts 17:11 was a vital scripture. In the past 10 years or so, however, it feels like it's rarely used.

To test this out, I had a look in the latest WT index on how often Acts 17:11 has been referred to since 1989. Here we see:

Seven references from 1989-98, but only six more in the 20+ years since, with a big gap between 1998 and 2007, and hardly anything since 2011!

The two most recent references to that verse (bt 137-138 and lff lesson 2) are self-contained around believing what the Bible itself says, not what someone else says in comparison. The 2011 WT reference also skims over the aspect of the Beroeans analysing what Paul said. You have to go right back to the March 2008 Awake reference to find Acts 17:11 used in the context of evaluating what someone else tells you to believe.

Acts 17:11 has clearly become an embarrassment to the GB of today, as it contradicts their ramped up message that tells the R&F to accept whatever they say without question or hesitation.

2952

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

Journeyman

Hail the Lloydocracy ever decreasing...

Love that King-dumb song! (LE being the King of Dumb, of course!)

Well, well, well. A drop down to 333? That's the largest drop he's had for a few months, I believe. Even allowing for the possible 'correction' of a few more regains as the month passes (which seems to be the regular pattern), I think nicolaou is right: the momentum of the drop is picking up again.

So much for the revamp of his Patreon tiers and 'refresh' of what he's offering. The 'shrooms, the orange hair, the newfound 'beliefs'(?) and the offer of WhatsApp chats and "monthly 1:1 conversations" with Our Hero are not pulling in new punters. Looks like his followers are not impressed and are voting with their feet. Who would've thought it? 🤣

Won't be long now and this thread will be reaching 300 pages. Meanwhile, he'll be hitting the 300 member mark - from the wrong direction! 🤣

6

77 years ago today, Watchtower admits 'they were truly supporting the war effort' in Australia

by was a new boy in

other commercial enterprises were opened up under the.

direction of those at the branch office, and the brethren.

were asked to operate sawmills, bakeries, numerous farms.

Journeyman

You raise some interesting questions there, but the very fact there was an apology and a Resolution making a "confession" is amazing in itself - a stark contrast to the GB of today (and recent years)!

Can anyone seriously imagine any member of the current GB standing up and reading a Resolution seeking Jehovah's forgiveness for any errors within the organisation? Or printing such in a Watchtower article (or today's equivalent - making a statement from behind that fancy desk at JW HQ on a monthly broadcast?)

That JW vs JW clip shows that it's not just that someone may "err", but what compounds the error is when they stubbornly refuse to change their way, and then even if forced to change later, they will deflect away from the need for any apology or admission of guilt to phrases like "it's a refinement", and worse, tacitly blame God for it by saying things like "Jehovah was guiding one way previously, but now he has directed us differently".

It reminds me of the very same way in which the leaders of the Biblical nation of Israel often behaved, and God called them "stiff-necked" and "hard-hearted", and indicated that they themselves were often to blame for the suffering of their own people and for the attacks on them carried out by other nations, as He withdrew His protection due to their disobedience and attitude.

Likewise today, much of the ridicule JWs endure, and the "persecution" at the hands of governments, is because of policies the GB choose to enforce, many of which are not scripturally required.

For example, while not taking up arms is a Christian stance, there is no need to refuse alternatives to military service, yet in many cases the GB has insisted brothers and sisters not even do civilian duties. This has brought Witnesses in many countries into unnecessary conflict with governments and law courts over decades.

And now, much of the suspicion and negativity aimed at Witnesses is due to the secrecy of the GB regarding sexual offences, financial irregularities and other crimes and misdemeanours which they have allowed to build up over the years, when they could and should have lanced these boils of corruption and sin ages ago, made public confession and cleaned up the organisation.

Yet still they double down on being God's only representative on earth, and His only "faithful and discreet" servant, who must be listened to and obeyed without question.

88

Who Was The Biggest Jackass Circuit Overseer You Ever Met?

by Sea Breeze in

there was on older white-haired circuit overseer in houston around 1989 or 1990. last name started with a w i think.... not sure though.

even the most brain-dead robotic elders told me he was offensive.

.

Journeyman

UK Circuit Overseers who were jackasses, hmm. I have a long list.

ukpimo, I came here looking for one name for sure - and found it: Mike Purbrick!

I knew someone would list him among the worst UK COs. I've never known someone so universally hated - and for good reason, he really was full of himself. Yes, a very good speaker from the platform, but in person he came across so arrogant and condescending.

Surprised to see Anton Irons and Michael Spurr in the list though. They seemed to me to be decent enough. I also knew a few others listed there, but not well enough to make too much of an assessment of their character. Most COs were rather anonymous, bland men to me, and their wives virtually invisible.

14

2024 Pioneer Manual!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

they are calling this the 2024 pioneer book.

it was actually printed in september of 2023, but that will be alright.

click the 3 white dots at the top right to download.. .

Journeyman

Seeing this latest edition reminds me of how much the PS, like lots of other things, has been dumbed down.

When I went to the School in the 1990s, the programme was two weeks long and consisted of at least one opportunity to actually go out on the ministry. As I understand it, it has now been cut to only a week, and there is no 'practical' exercise of going on the ministry during the School.

Also, comparing the first topics on Day 1 tells you a lot about how they've shifted the emphasis.

I dug out my old School book and the first two units included:

Getting acquainted more intimately with Jehovah as a person
Pursuing the way of love
Showing personal interest in others

However, the Day 1 programme in this latest edition consists of:

Fortify Your Relationship With Jehovah
Using the New World Translation
Keep Pace With Spiritual Enlightenment

So the emphasis is more on organisation-specific stuff, and on learning to put up with constant changes in the org! All that woolly Christian stuff about "the way of love" (gone completely from the new book) and "personal interest in others" (much later in the programme) have been replaced by clearly much more important points, like these two in the "Keep pace" section:

How does our refined understanding of the faithful slave affect you personally?
How do doctrinal refinements build your faith and confidence in Jehovah and his organization?

They've also reduced the content on Jesus from two chapters ("Jesus Christ - The Way, The Truth, The Life" and "Follow Jesus as a model" - nine pages of text in total) to one ("Appreciate Jesus’ Role" - four pages).

Who are they kidding?

21

New ministry, you don’t give a witness

by Mikejw in

there are assignments on the life and ministry school now where they are suggested to just talk to people without giving a witness.. they are supposed to practice starting conversations with strangers and listening to them to talk about whatever they want to talk about .

there is an assignment this week where the conversation ends without giving a witness.

jws don’t look like jws anymore and now they don’t actually preach.. you could get bearded men with sweaters or other such tops and women in pants or slacks coming upto you in the park or on the street and starting a conversation with you.. then you hear them listening to you and talking about whatever they think that you wanted to talk about .

Journeyman

It's quite ironic having this thread and the one about the latest edition of the Pioneer School manual around at the same time.

The contrast between the oft-stated PS theme scripture “Fully accomplish your ministry” (2 Tim 4:5) and the increasingly dumbed-down introduction ideas at the midweek meeting couldn't be more stark!

And given how often the org used to use the example of Jesus talking to the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4 on how to informally witness, that also makes this current trend for "just making conversation" look silly. Can you imagine Jesus, after saying "Give me a drink", just saying something like "Thanks. Have a nice day!" and walking off, reasoning "Well, I'll just make a friend of her first, maybe I'll mention something spiritual the third or fourth time I see her." Crazy. Defeats the whole point of the supposed purpose and urgency of the Christian ministry.

Life-saving work? Talk illustrations comparing the ministry to warning neighbours about an impending earthquake or tornado and helping them to evacuate a danger zone? Nope - not any more! And yet the end is supposed to be that much closer now. We're allegedly in "the final part of the final part of the last days, shortly before the last day of the last days", so we were told. Doesn't that make the warning work more urgent? There's not even any pretence at logic to any of this anymore.