Posts by Journeyman

2952

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

Journeyman

I'm with slim and Tonus. LE is too self-centred and too set on pursuing his own pleasure and desires to be seriously suicidal. Although I'm no expert on the subject, and it's by no means 100% guaranteed, generally those who talk loudest about suicidal tendencies are not the most likely to actually do it.

The "mental health crisis" he claims to experience now and then seems most likely to be the result of wrestling with guilt (trying to suppress the warnings of the conscience), uncertainty about his future (when he sees his comfortable assumptions and self-assurances unfulfilled) and seeing the unsettling consequences of his previous words and actions coming back to haunt him.

47

SECRET RECORDING 14TH APRIL:RALPH WALLS: MORE CHANGES ARE COMING!

by raymond frantz in

secret recording 14th april:ralph walls: more changes are coming!.

( broadcasted to all british congregations today).

https://youtu.be/owg4bqj7pd0?si=yvfpkkos_qoy9u10.

Journeyman

It's saying that if God chooses to destroy you, you can just regenerate yourself back to existence. What an absurd idea.

Indeed, and that's at the heart of it. "Immortality" is nothing to do with having life separate from God, but rather, having the guarantee of life precisely because one's relationship with God is so close that He promises to sustain it forever. Remember, only God has the "source of life".

Creatures can only sustain their own life by God's permission. If He wishes to sustain an individual, they can survive despite lack of food or water, or in the most hostile conditions. Think of Israel in the wilderness, Daniel and his companions in the fire, Jonah in the big fish, and so on. In contrast, without God's permission of life, even the most healthy and well-supported individuals will die - as Adam and Eve discovered (and Satan and the unfaithful angels face in future).

Jesus is immortal, not because of his own inherent ability to let himself live separately from God, but because of his Father's promise and intention never to remove life from his Son or allow him to lose it ever again. This, in turn, is based on the Father's confidence that the Son will never do anything that is deserving of death, due to Jesus having already proved supremely faithful - in other words, he has proved he will never do any act of disloyalty or rebellion that will draw him away from the Father (since drawing away from God is itself what leads to death, as Adam and Eve found).

That reward is also given to the anointed kings and priests in heaven, Christ's brothers, when they receive their crown. (1 Pet 1:4, 1 Cor 15:50-55)

Eventually it will extend to all those described in John 6:53, the ones faithful and loyal enough to be accepted "into God's rest" at the end, who will by then have all proved themselves loyal beyond doubt.

11

Children dumped at ministry group

by Mikejw in

jw
friends

it’s not right for children to be forced to come to ministry groups on their own without their parents.

the parents just expect others to look after them.. we have this happening at our group all the time.

early teens and even younger.. the parents just want them out of the house for a bit and put the burden on others to look after them and get them home safely.. there should be an announcement or something that youths need to be accompanied by a responsible adult and not just dumped at the group on their own.. who is supposed to look after them?.

Journeyman

I've never heard of this happening in all the time I've been in and around the congregations, but then I live in a major city and no Witness parents would allow their underaged kid to go to ministry group alone especially when they are already paranoid enough about the evils of the "World".

If they want their kid to go with another publisher, they would either take them to the group (and usually work from there too themselves but with someone else, to get a break from the child) or arrange for the publisher to meet the kid at home and collect them (though that's much rarer).

And frankly, with events like this happening more often lately, I can't fault them for being more cautious:

Hainault: What we know about London sword attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68927702

29

Why does it matter whether or not Armageddon is near?

by TxNVSue2023 in

why does it matter whether or not the end of the world ( (armageddon) is near?

if it was next week, next year, next decade, next century?

what is to be gained by knowing how close or far it is?

Journeyman

Broadly speaking, I agree with TxNVSue2023.

To be a Christian, there is no need to know when Armageddon is coming. In fact, Jesus made it clear we would NOT know and should not expect to. It's one of many things the Org has got all messed up for decades, and even now when they claim they are no longer looking for dates, the evidence of their talks and behaviour (for example the Lett comments about being in the final hours of the final day of the last days) show otherwise.

They are still unnecessarily feeding the rank and file's view that Armageddon is "just around the corner" and that is why they should not give up now, not stop, etc. Rather than emphasise that whether Armageddon comes in "my" or "your" lifetime or not, living according to God's standards is intrinsically worthwhile in itself - not that we are working to an end date. That almost guarantees you are setting people up for disappointment and disillusionment.

He will decide who will & will not be part of the new world.

Again, absolutely right, and this has always been the case, whether humans (including the JW org) have chosen to recognise it or not. It's a self-evident truth that if Armageddon and the coming new world are in God's power, and the power over life and death are also, then the one who determines who lives or dies is Him (and whoever he chooses to give that power to - His Son).

For anyone to say this one dies or that one lives ahead of that is simply arrogance and assuming auithority that doesn't belong to them. It;s one thing to say that individual should live by the standards laid out in the Bible and even to caution that God warns us about the choices we make, but no human can determine the exact outcome of another, Just because the Org now claims it will stop being presumptuous in this matter doesn't change what every JW should already know based on Scripture.

However, I do agree with and understand the passion of members countering TxNVSue2023's points with the fact that the Org HAS claimed to know, or at least to insert itself in as the sole source of divine authority on these subjects, and because of that many JWs have been misled into listening to men rather than God when making plans for their lives around what job to take, whether to marry, have children, move to another land to live, and so on.

As a result, there is a huge legacy of disappointment and bitterness which has nothing to do with what God and Scripture says, but everything to do with the interpretations of men, and in this case, a small group of men in Brooklyn.

20

Pioneer Hours

by Etude in

does anyone know how many hours were required to be a pioneer back in or around 1970?.

etude..

Journeyman

in most cases, it was HARD!

And no easy options like letter writing (for the average able-bodied publisher) or trolley witnessing (for anyone) either!

I don't even think they had reduced hours for the elderly and infirm back then, although I wasn't alive, let alone a JW, back in 1970 so someone might be correct me on that!

47

SECRET RECORDING 14TH APRIL:RALPH WALLS: MORE CHANGES ARE COMING!

by raymond frantz in

secret recording 14th april:ralph walls: more changes are coming!.

( broadcasted to all british congregations today).

https://youtu.be/owg4bqj7pd0?si=yvfpkkos_qoy9u10.

Journeyman

He opens by saying: "The Britain branch... England, Britain, is very special"
Ugh. Put me off right away. He couldn't even be bothered to learn and understand the difference between Britain and England.

What does that say for his attitude to accuracy, and his respect for his audience, knowing as he would've that he was coming to this country for a branch visit?

I bet some of the Scottish and Welsh brothers loved hearing that!

And then he says his talk will be based on the Revelation Climax book. Err. hang on, you can't even get that book anymore! Isn't that "old light" now, brother? 🤣

86

Prediction: no more changes for a long while

by slimboyfat in

i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

Journeyman

Yes, the congregation monthly donation arrangement will cover over any inbalance in publishers' donations for a while, since the burden is spread across all.

So for example, you might have only say, 10-20 out of a congregation of 100 giving a substantial amount each week, with maybe a similar number putting in change and the rest, nothing. But the 10-20 giving the most will mask the lack of contribution from the rest when taken in aggregate as a monthly donation to the Org. For a while at least.

But over time, if the number of those willing to donate larger sums continues to fall, and assuming those who currently donate most are middle-aged to elderly, long-time Witnesses who have limited outgoings and sufficient finances to be able to make larger donations, such ones will continue dying off and not being replaced by ones with very stable finances (even younger ones with a half-decent income are more subject to changes in their fortunes, due to family issues, job market, inflation or recession, etc, so less likely to routinely make substantial donations), the shortfall will eventually be noticeable even at a congregation level.

At that point, even the "congregational monthly donation" arrangement will be insufficient for the Org, so they'll have to think of something else by then.

I suspect it will be tied to individual donation arrangements via online using the JW org accounts, which they are gradually trying to get everyone tied into. You already have one of these if you are an elder, MS or fulltime servant, or someone who has volunteered to do any construction work or other projects through your local Bethel. Probably won't be long before they expect everyone to use a JW login account. Then they can monitor individual financial contributions and give targeted "encouragement" to anyone not thought to be giving enough (even though scripturally, Christians are not supposed to do that!)

19

I think I know what the GB is doing

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

read:.

but if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘my master is delaying,’b 49 and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards.

hmm... let's see is anyone on the governing body a strict master and a drunkard?

Journeyman

I agree with markweatherill. If the GB are the "evil slave", then that would have to be all of them collectively, as the slave (if it's a collective body at all), is spoken of as being either one or the other.

As said, if they are the evil slave then they won't accept it anyway until it's too late. It parallels Matthew 22 where the man who arrives for the wedding feast isn't wearing the right garments: he thinks he's entitled to be there, but is not properly dressed. He's not "put on" the "clothing" that he should have done - not displaying the right qualities (the Christlike personality that is spoken of as being like a garment), and so the man is showing disrespect to the Groom. So he's shocked to be thrown out by the Groom when He arrives.

As to whether the GB know what they are doing, I think that while some of the changes they are making are right - removing Pharasaical rules about beards, ties, dresses, reporting hours, etc, for example - they are still culpable because they have not changed more serious matters that they know are causing problems and that they are failing on, which are causing real distress in congregations, such as tackling genuinely wrong behaviour (there was a thread about "engineering divorces", for example, which we know goes on and the GB has done little about it), including the painful results of judicial injustices, wrongly disfellowshipping, shunning and the heavy-handed application of internal "rules" which are not supported by scripture, etc.

It's like Jesus accused the Pharisees of "straining out the gnat" but "gulping down the camel" - worrying over petty details, (like adminstrative and procedural stuff, what outfits can be worn, which form to fill in for which assignment, etc) but missing the "weightier things" like justice and mercy.

IMO, that's also why, despite the tinkering they are doing that they think might spare them the wrath of governments (eg: the Norway case), I don't believe they will be allowed to get away so lightly.,

I think it's interesting times in JW-land, and not necessarily for the reasons the GB expect. Watch this space!

25

Things you can not say in "field service" anymore.

by greenhornet in

jw
friends

many years ago we would be on someone's doorstep, when waiting for the house holder to come to the door we say something like ... yea after the big a this is going to be my house.

imagine saying that today with the common use of doorbell cameras and the squatting problem .

Journeyman

He replied, "I thought maybe you died and somebody nice moved in."

LOL! That's hilarious, although not of course in the "spirit" of the Christian ministry. But it's true that, whatever you might think of going door-to-door now, there really were some horrible people out there, sometimes. Still are of course, that's just life. Some people are always going to be nasty, or at least easily angered and "triggered", as they call it today.

On the subject of callous remarks by Witnesses, I was never comfortable hearing comments about "taking their home" or "they're having their reward in full" or things like that. Completely goes against the numerous Biblical instructions about not "coveting" your neighbours' property, not calling down evil on your enemies but praying for them, not wanting to acquire material things but being content to survive Armageddon with your life, and so on. Even the GB has said that Witnesses are supposed to view others as "potential brothers and sisters", so trash talking like that is hardly showing that kind of spirit.

To be fair, the society - during the 80s+ at least, when I was involved with them - didn't encourage that, except in one way, which I did used to find unchristian, which was the frequency of Watchtower articles that used to be all about how terrible "worldly" people and organisations were, but how "righteous" 'God's people' were when it came to things like marriage, honest at work, religious observance, etc. That must have fed the egos of so many in the congregations, especially those elders (and elderettes) and "full-time servants" who already think they're something special.

Fortunately, the org has toned that right down in recent years, but there was a period of a couple of decades where there were often study articles which were frankly boasting about JWs being so much better than anyone else. They've probably had to stop being so arrogant about JWs now they've finally realised how many problems there are in congregations: they have many more articles about how to cope with problems in marriages, families, how to resolve disputes with brothers, etc, these days, so I reckon the GB have had to wake up a bit more to reality!

2952

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

Journeyman

He doesn't have much interest or much ammunition from the latest JW changes, I don't think. They're mostly corrections of things that should've been changed years ago (reporting time, no beards, suits and ties only for men, no trousers for women, etc) and none of them are about his favourite subject: sex.

So I doubt he's really that interested, especially since he's already clearly desperate to move on with his life (although he can't resist the draw of the easy money from patrons).

If anyone still wants to visit his YT channel, feel free to challenge him on ~~this~~ anything. I am sure he will engage with you thoughtfully and respectfully and not act like a total obnoxious asshole in his replies. Good luck!!

Fixed it.