Posts by Journeyman

6

The Bible Does Not Say

by blondie in

jw
friends

the wts often uses the phrase about then follows with their idea of what their god meant.

i have p0sted some of the most recent.

it is worth a look at more.

The hypocrisy of their frequent use of the phrase "the Bible does not say", is that there are numerous occasions when the GB have presumed to know what was going on behind a Bible account when in fact - the Bible does not say! Sometimes they've even made rules or doctrines around these presumptions - often having to make embarrassing U-turns years later.

This inclination to presumption has of course become worse now that they insist on making regular videos and even feature-film length dramas of Bible accounts, because this necessarily means adding details that are just not known or provable, since the Bible accounts are not detailed enough to provide adequate material for film scripts!

A glaring recent example of that was making up a sister for Jonah in a Bible drama for the convention. Did Jonah have a sister? The Bible does not say!

Also, on another thread I recently posted an example that stood out to me from their "Imitate The Faith" book (which is supposed to be a biography of various Bible characters).

In the chapter on Elijah, the Org implied that his servant was sceptical about an incoming rainstorm prophesied by God, was possibly wondering what the big deal was, and may even have been reluctant to do what he was repeatedly asked by Elijah. Yet there is absolutely no evidence in the Bible account (1 Kings 18:42-44) to support these suggestions. The Bible does not say!

I can only imagine that the reason for the Org to cast doubt on the servant's faith was perhaps to make the reader think "would I believe if I was in that situation?" and also to emphasise Elijah's actions, but it seemed pretty lame to me.

There are many examples in the literature of the Org assuming motivations of characters or background to Bible accounts which are just not supported in the text.

3

annual meeting and Helene

by enoughisenough in

i was wondering if any on here watched the meeting and if so was anything mentioned about the disaster in the path of helene and the suffering of those people ( included jw ) just curious.

Journeyman

The org has had info on their News page up for about three days now on Hurricane Helene.

56

Annual Meeting live updates

by ukpimo in

i have obtained the live link for the annual meeting tomorrow:.

annual meeting live link.

the meeting will begin at 9:45am eastern time, for those of us in the uk, that will be 2:45pm.

Journeyman

I'm not sure about WWIII as such - that suggests a coordinated, global (or near-global) war of the kind we saw in 1914-18 and 1939-45, and because we're in the nuclear age, would be very likely to lead to near-total destruction of the world. Usually, that also needs a united cause against a specific enemy, eg: the Allies vs Axis powers. But the world is much more ideologically fragmented than that now.

What looks more likely - and in fact is already happening - is a series of simultaneous and overlapping major regional conflicts that encompass the whole world, while not necessarily all being fought by all nations. That would tie in better with Jesus' prophecy for the end times that "you will hear of wars and reports of wars".

As for "political elements" turning on "religion", there have been lots of tensions building in the past few decades that could lead to that. The global political movement clashes with most religious organisations over many issues, including creation vs evolution, abortion, sexuality and LGBT issues, and, as economic pressures grow around the world and issues of poverty and homelessness increase even in wealthier nations, the wealth of churches is also coming under the spotlight. Not to mention issues of legal legitimacy, with many religions resisting the authority of governments and states, some overtly (like Islamic terrorists attacking Western governments and even governments in Muslim countries that are not seen as "Muslim" enough, and other conflicts over religion in the Middle East and Asia), some more passively, like the resistance of groups like the JWs who will not join armies, vote, etc.

All these things are already irritating the political elements of this world, and are likely to continue to do so. Religion is rapidly losing its influence in places like Europe, Canada and Australasia, and while it might seem unlikely for the USA, South America, Africa and the Middle East to turn their backs on religion at the moment, there will come a tipping point where organised religion will be seen as the aggravating factor of all the intractable problems we have and that it will be a solution to unite people and break down barriers. Many people worldwide already believe this to be the case.

56

Annual Meeting live updates

by ukpimo in

i have obtained the live link for the annual meeting tomorrow:.

annual meeting live link.

the meeting will begin at 9:45am eastern time, for those of us in the uk, that will be 2:45pm.

Journeyman

They did away with Zone overseers and District overseers a few years ago. But yes, there are COs, Bethelites, GB "helpers" and the GB themselves that would fall under that category.

Although as we've seen, COs and Bethelites - especially the latter - are subject to being dumped if and when the top brass feel like it. So the only ones who are secure are the GB and their "helpers", as long as they don't step out of line like AMIII apparently did!

42

Two new Governing Body members

by slimboyfat in

jeddoly and rumph???.

who are they?

.

Journeyman

Two more on the GB? It seems like an increasing softening into a "corporate" image for the GB, and moving away from the eccentric, overtly "religious" types that they've appointed in the past.

And of course, the choice of younger and younger men is part of that break with the past - in every sense.

At this rate, with AMIII ousted, when the likes of Lett and Herd pass away, the GB will almost seem normal. Almost!

Presumably, that's the ploy to try and make the JW org leadership seem more "normal". Trouble is, there are plenty of other pseudo-religious organisations with seemingly normal looking men in their 40s, 50s or 60s in suits running them, and they're just as odd and not trusted by the public because of what they say and do, so if this is an attempt at a "modern" image makeover, it will fail.

56

Annual Meeting live updates

by ukpimo in

i have obtained the live link for the annual meeting tomorrow:.

annual meeting live link.

the meeting will begin at 9:45am eastern time, for those of us in the uk, that will be 2:45pm.

Journeyman

the destruction of Babylon the Great will be all countries willingly giving power to UN....I thought Babylon the Great was the Empire of False Religion what was going to be destroyed. Maybe I will see a clip somewhere for context of the statement because from where I am sitting "all countries" and "world empire of false religions" are two different animals so to speak.

Good point. That was my understanding too - that they already implicitly taught that all the nations will give their support to the UN to destroy Babylon the Great, although they tended to keep the explicit statement about nations coming together for the bit after BTG is destroyed and they turn on the JWs who are left. But it's surely always been implicit in the teaching of the destruction of "the harlot" that all the nations will unite to attack "her", so this is not really a new teaching, unless there is more detail in the talk that's not been stated.

Interesting about the two new GB members, and the seemingly softened stance over rising partaker numbers. It really does sound like this could be a prelude to changing ideas about the 144,000 in the near future, if they're willing to accept larger numbers now.

And it does sound like maybe they're aiming to get back to 12 GB members, since that number is scripturally significant.

31

October Elder's Letter Delayed- Big Announcement at Annual Meeting

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/93h5zpbil6k?si=ffatfxjuxmj_na9i.

Journeyman

Anony Mous: True, although some of their 'new' songs also either sound like Disney or other creations, not truly 'original'. There's one that sounds like a Christmas carol and I keep wanting to break into the carol's chorus when I hear it! 🤣

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

Journeyman

Broadly, I agree with slim that the JW org have rightly avoided slavishly following the dogmas set by the early church fathers, many of which were inspired by pagan ideas, and this has helped them break free of the kind mental traps and pseudo-philosophical gymnastics we see when we look - for example - at threads on here about the Trinity, where some individuals can go on for pages and pages trying to justify what is plainly not supported in Scripture by quoting numerous supposed church 'scholars'.

The problem - common to all mankind as Jeremiah 10:23 states - is that in doing so, they have instead established their own dogmas over the 120+ years of their existence, and it is their unwillingness to recognise there may be error in any of these and their increasing inflexibility in those areas, that is likely to be their downfall. The most obvious of these is the whole reliance on Matthew 24:45 and certain key dates such as 1914 and 1919 to assert their own (exclusive) authority from God, and doubling down on it by excluding the rest of the 144,000 from that number but claiming it represents only today's GB (but every single one of them), to whom everyone must be unquestioningly obedient.

In my opinion, the modern-day Org especially is drawing the displeasure of Jehovah by measures like this (including rigidly refusing to significantly modify policies around CSA, disfellowshipping, etc) so though it may be possible that He views them as closer to "truth" than other churches and organisations, like the nation of Israel and even some congregations and individuals of the first-century Christian arrangement, they are certainly not wholly correct and fully obedient to God. The Org still tends towards being more hard-hearted and less humble and merciful than Jehovah and Jesus require (as evidenced by slippery behaviour like at the ARC and many recent court cases), and so are facing a shock in the near future when they receive divine discipline (and in fact may already be doing so, as seen by the "drying up" of their numbers, their confused doctrinal and organisational changes, their growing financial difficulties, and so on).

31

October Elder's Letter Delayed- Big Announcement at Annual Meeting

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/93h5zpbil6k?si=ffatfxjuxmj_na9i.

Journeyman

Sing Out Joyfully will extend the number of songs to 200 (it says songs 1 to 200), which is ironic because the whole point of the first revised songbook in 2009 was to avoid having too many songs to sing.

Yes, this has already been announced to congregations. I agree this is odd for the reason stated, and most of the songs in the old brown "Sign Praises" book (I think there were 225) were better than their 'updated' replacements. Presumably it was just an excuse to have a clear-out and add in all the (awful) 'modern' 'original compositions' the org has been churning out since JW Broadcasting went live. More of an ego boost to the current music department, rather than anything else.

2953

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

Journeyman

I don't think he would want the children full time for 1 they would get in the way of his many holidays he takes

And not only the holidays, but the "extra-curricular" activities he indulges in while on them, with 'ladies' of the night and with various substances. Having two kids in tow is not conducive to such 'entertainment'!