what is it about the organization that changes seemingly normal people into carbon copies of corporate policy, changes them down to their very soul?
how is it that loyalty to this organization can cause one to turn off natural affection between parent and child, spouses, grandparents etc.
what exactly, specifically, is it that they do during these five weekly meetings and/or with their printed words that has such a profound and powerful effect on people.
What She Said!
When you have their information drummed into you day after day, week after week, year after year, you can become almost like a corpse walking around, you lose your own identity and I for one felt 'lifeless', as though all my spirit, all my zest for life had been sucked out of me.
The only thing I know for sure is: that I don't know anything for sure.
reading country joe's posts got me thinkingabout the vietnam war era folks here.. what were you doing at that time?.
as jw's and non-jw's,what were your feelings about the war?.
are you a vet or child of one?.
Jeffory:
First, let me say, "Welcome home, Brother." I, too lost a cousin in the 25th Inf at Cu Chi. He was KIA on 30 Oct 1968. He was in the 2nd Battalion, 27th Inf Reg't, 25th Inf Division. His name was Danny Gray of Fordyce, AR. He was 20 at the time, on his first combat patrol. The 25th Inf Div was stationed at Cu Chi, well known by another name, "The Iron Triangle". The regiments in the 25th sustained some of the highest casualties of the Vietnam Conflict especially in 67 and 68.
LDH:
After all my Dad saw especially, I wonder if that didn't set him up to buy into the WTBS load of bull lock stock and barrel.
I know in my case, it did to a certain extent. Many of us of the time were sick of the 'establishment' and we had lost too many friends to a war that seemed to have no real purpose. A paradise earth where everyone got along sounded mighty darn good to me at the time.
The only thing I know for sure is: that I don't know anything for sure.
reading country joe's posts got me thinkingabout the vietnam war era folks here.. what were you doing at that time?.
as jw's and non-jw's,what were your feelings about the war?.
are you a vet or child of one?.
Tina:
I was neck deep in the US Navy at the time; 1967-1976. Spent part of '69 and '70 attempting to 'kill commies for Christ' as one quite irreverent shipmate would say each time we engaged in a fire mission. In 1976 I left the service as a C.Oobjector. Studied with the JW's and 'saw the light.' At the time I didn't realize how much of a flashing light it was. ;-)
Interestingly, I always remained proud of my service, even though I didn't make a big deal out of it. Now, I look back on my years in the JW with regret and my service to my country with pride.
One point, however, the late 60's and 70's were a momentous time. Many of us in the military at the time were very conflicted about the war and its implications. I'm sure some thought that a revolution was about to take place in the U.S. Major colleges at the time were hotbeds for radical idealogy.
The WTS was able to weather the '75 debacle a lot more easily because of the unsettled times. A lot of people were looking for the world to end, not just JW's. [e.g., The Late, Great Planet Earth, by Hal Lindsey] Utilizing the 20/20 hindsight years bring, had the times been a little more settled the WTS would probably have had a much harder time defending the charges of 'false prophet.'
i look back on the 1970s with a sense of loss and nostalgia.
i was a young man, just married, and so much in love with my beautiful wife.
i had just started my engineering career, and was debt free.
Amazing:
I, too, have looked back on all those years with a certain amount of regret. I was baptized in 1976 and felt so smug having all the answers. Guess what? Now all I have are questions. However, we are what we are because of our experiences. I learned a lot of things in the JW's. Primarily how to deal with and approach people and they taught me to be a public speaker. All of which has helped me immensely. Would I do it again? Hell, no! I am so totally glad to be out of it and have my family out, too.
I prefer the questions to the answers the WTS has, that's for sure. I look on the bright side in my own situation: 1) I have a lovely wife. 2) Fantastic grandchildren 3) One fast as hell motorcycle 4) A decent job that I enjoy. You are obviously looking on your bright side and that will always make you feel better. I went through months of depression after learning the 'Truth' about the 'Truth', but it got better and now I am just taking one day at a time and enjoying the hell of it.
The only I know for sure is: that I don't know anything for sure.
a side of relief for me but angry for what happened after the announcement of my disfellowship from the wts.
i urged my mother not to attend because of the emotional trauma and agony you experience.
she's diabetics and any emotional let down can cause her serious problems.
Exodus:
Lindy says it all:
I tell you that the best revenge of all is to lead a very happy and productive life from here out. They never expect that. They wnat you to be as miserable as they are on the inside, if they are good at hiding their misery, that is.
That's what I am busy doing... it's great therapy and a lot less emotionally taxing.
i have been dfd since i turned 19, i aux, pioneered for a short time and then selfishly went after the fruits of the flesh.
smoking, sex, drinking, drugs, etc.... the thing i couldn't, or wouldn't, see at the time was that i was acting selfishly.
it didn't matter what others in the cong.
Some of this hatred comes from "jilted" former elders, some who served as shepards in the cong. for twenty years. they of all people should know God's will and his commands by heart. No-one should be able to shake your resolve be they CO's, Elders, Ministerial Servants, or brothers and sisters.
Goingnuts:
You asked for input, and it would appear that you got it. The above quote would seem to be right out of the WT mags. I heard that for the 20 + yrs that I served the WTS. I was an elder, MS and was considered an 'up and comer'. I gave talks at the Circuit Assembly and was a popular guest speaker all over my circuit. I was the Service Overseer in my congregation and if anybody 'knew the commandments', I did. I don't consider myself a 'jilted' elder; each assignment I received carried with it more power and authority.
With all of that, I ended up DF'd twice and will never return to the JW's. I was DF'd after I fell into spiritual disarray over a lot of the things that I was taught and taught to others for years.
I have examined the teachings of the JW's and found them seriously flawed. You must do your own research and make these sorts of decisions for yourself. Return if you feel that is the right decision for you.
You will gather a tremendous amount of information on this board. You will see grumpy folks, sweet folks and in-between folks. All of them have a story to tell, most of those stories will break your heart. Roy's story is not the exception, it happens and happens a lot. We've left and we all have excellent reasons for leaving.
If you have never tried to get reinstated, you are in for a real treat. I went through it once. Only after a letter written to the GB was forwarded to my old cong was I reinstated.
As I stated, I was almost the 'superelder.' After I finally groveled enough to be reinstated, I was still very much 'tainted goods.' No priveleges ever again. Very much a 'second-class' theocratic citizen. Not sour grapes just the facts. After I faded away, they didn't want to let me live my own life. They kept after me until they got me the second time.
Do your research... then make your decision.
what was your [or someone else's]most embarrassing comment?.
mine was during a wt study on christian qualities: on courtesy:.
"courtesy is the lubricant for social intercourse.
but he got a mad llok as he blushed, because he felt humor and laughing had no place in the Kingdom Hall meetings. - Amazing
Glad I wasn't in his cong. My god, you had to do something to wake some of those people up! Besides, isn't God a 'Happy God'?
He should have been there when the brother gave the talk 'Identifying the True Christian Congregation' with those parts about idiosyncracies. The one giving the talk had the whole congregation rolling in the aisles with the 'paper towels rolling out in the right direction'; 'not answering the phone on the first ring' and the 'old codger who had his wife ride in the back seat while his dog rode in the front'. And a lot more... the guy was invited back everywhere he went with that talk.
what was your [or someone else's]most embarrassing comment?.
mine was during a wt study on christian qualities: on courtesy:.
"courtesy is the lubricant for social intercourse.
What was your [or someone else's]most embarrassing comment?
Mine was during a WT Study on Christian qualities: On courtesy:
"Courtesy is the lubricant for social intercourse." Quote from God only knows what piece of literature. Total silence after this one and no counsel from anyone after the meeting. Did they even get it?
ok, america, this is it.
you have got to start learning english english at some point or another, after all, us brits are having to learn american english to be able to understand all those films (movies) about how you saved our arses (butts) during the 1939 -1945 (1941 - 1945) war.. now we all know the obvious ones, such as you calling a car bonnet the hood, the boot is the trunk and a spanner being a wrench etc etc.
plus the fact that you eat fries instead of chips and spread mayo instead of butter.
'England and America are two countries separated by a common language.'
Eddie Izzard, HBO Special
well the elders do not accept me.
i do not fit the mold and nor will i change too.
they asked for a book for me to see the questions answered for baptisim but they wouldn't give it to me because they have to decide if i can join???
Tattoogirl:
The business about the hair and tattoos would have caused you problems sooner or later. You are absolutely right. God doesn't care what we look like, He sees the heart. As a father of two ex-JW kids, when they showed up at my house with the pierced body parts, [Son had his tongue pierced and his nipples, too, had white hair with black tips and some sort of Oriental symbols tattooed on his back.]I surprised him by laughing with him about it. I remember saying something about wouldn't our old friends in the congregation be flipping out over him. My daughter also had her eyebrow pierced and had, I believe, blue, pink, jet black and a few other colors there for a while.
Point is: It don't make a bit of difference what we look like. I have male friends in their fifties with long pony tails. I look like a Hell's Angel when I ride my bike. [You'd be surprised how many mothers pull their small children out of my way in the convenience stores when I pick up a nice cold beverage.] BTW, my head is almost shaved. And according to Kent, I'm UGLY! I want to know who gave him my picture!
Be glad you found out the truth about 'the troof' sooner rather than later.
Welcome back!
