Hi The Fall Guy
Very sound logic and reasoning.
Posts by venus
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30Shunning: Reasoning With JW's
by The Fall Guy inperhaps this line of questioning could agitate a jw's thinking.
it can't hurt.. you: is shunning a biblical teaching?.
jw: yes.. you: so it must be god's law?.
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Daniel 10:13 and 20 speak of demons governing their respective nations?
by I_love_Jeff interritorial spirits-.
daniel 10:13,20 prince of persia.
deut: 32:9 “when the most high divided the nations, when he separated the sons of adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of god.
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venus
However, behind all the details what is absolutely clear is that Daniel was not aware of the JW teaching that the the 'Satan is the ruler of this world."
The Greek word used for wicked one originally means wastefulness which was later personified as wicked one or Satan.
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Are there close parallels between Deuteronomy 32:8, Genesis 10 and the Ugaritic tablets?
by I_love_Jeff inaccording to these sources (city of ancient ugaritic tablets found in 1928) , elyon divided up all the nations into seventy nations, one for each of his sons (elim) .
sons of god makes the most sense than the sons of israel-deut.
32:8 especially since there was no nation of israel listed in the table of nations.
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venus
Book of Deuteronomy is bound to carry wrong notions. Look at its very essence—it presents God as a Law Giver which is unlikely to be true. God would not make Laws for humans because He knows that it is the intention behind the action that makes an action right or wrong (not the action itself which is often neutral in nature). Only the doer knows his intention behind his action; hence knows which action to be performed and which action not to be performed.
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End of biblical generation.
by asp59 inthis organization use god's name.
when puting god's name they accepted some things.
to complete the preaching work.
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venus
Psalm 90:10 had a literal fulfillment on them: "Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures" which means there is nothing divine about the organization. What applies to the physical man applies to the organization too (individuals collective)
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Why are Humans so Obsessed with trying to find Meaning in Ancient Writings that they waste their life on and are willing to die for ?
by smiddy3 inwhen you stop and think about it , isn`t it just plain crazy ?
ludicrous even ?
to live your life on texts centuries old and are willing to die upholding those beliefs ?.
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venus
I agree with Not_Culty
If people are willing to reason they would know that Scriptures are not God’s way of communication. For example, God did not safeguard Bible from being interpolated [see the reference editions which put things in brackets such as portions after Mark 16:8 ....etc] which He would definitely do if He is its author and owner. And even more important evidence that it is not God’s communication is that Bible is the basis for all conflicted sects which run into over 41000! This is the pattern we have observed in people as Ekhart Tolle rightly puts it: “If the structures of the human mind remain unchanged, we will always end up re-creating the same world, the same evils, the same dysfunction.”
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God seems to have alot of failures?
by purrpurr infor an all powerful, all knowing god it seems most of his plans go awry, so why assume that armageddon/ new system will work?
look at the track record.
... adam and eve... went wrong.
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venus
Yes, tor1500
It is true that “we kill just because we can...sometimes for no reason at all..animals kill for survival...Humans have too much brains and time on their hands...”
It shows our education system (not God) is a failure as it did not teach its students all over the world to respect all life which is the very core of all knowledge. It also failed to teach another basic truth that one should not plan his affairs in such a way that he becomes too poor or too rich because the former creates slavery for himself and the latter creates slavery of others. Make a visit to any large industry—you will find humans are treated like worse than a machine. If you go back into history, you will find the link between the both. “The slave issue was a moral issue exploited by large industry.” (Abraham Lincoln) (https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0131_030203_jubilee2_2.html)
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God seems to have alot of failures?
by purrpurr infor an all powerful, all knowing god it seems most of his plans go awry, so why assume that armageddon/ new system will work?
look at the track record.
... adam and eve... went wrong.
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venus
Hi Half banana
You say “God is unknowable, untestable and unprovable.” This is your thinking; and thinking is just the chattering of your mind which can make either sense or no sense just like chattering of your tongue produces both sensible and non-sensible sounds. “True intelligence is to rise above thinking as the source of all intelligence.” (Ekhart Tolle) Listening to thinking is like cluttering your lives. Such cluttering is what the history of humanity is like, which Winston Churchill defined as “one damn thing after another.” Their minds are filled up with the clutter of thoughts, one thought after another.” “Whenever an answer, a solution, or a creative idea is needed, stop thinking for a moment by focusing attention on your inner energy field. … When you resume thinking, it will be fresh and creative. What a liberation to realize that the “voice in my head” is not who I am. Who am I then? The one who sees that. We have forgotten how to be – to be still, to be ourselves, to be where life is, Here and Now.” (Ekhart Tolle)
Like Jesus who used to go into stillness early in the morning, going to the top of a mountain (Mark 1:35; John 8:1, 2) I too practice going into such stillness, absolute silence of the soul where it gets linked to the silence of The Ultimate Soul who rules over all the cycles of the nature; and I see all answers as though written in the Book of Nature. That is what I wrote. My reference to Neitzsche's "Eternal Recurrence" was just a supplementary proof just to show that there are people who discern things transcending the convention.
You say “the modern understanding of time is that it has a beginning.” This too is a thought. Truth is that something always precedes something which means everything is a chain infinite into the past and infinite into the future. This is too obvious from the eternal cycles we find in the nature.
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God seems to have alot of failures?
by purrpurr infor an all powerful, all knowing god it seems most of his plans go awry, so why assume that armageddon/ new system will work?
look at the track record.
... adam and eve... went wrong.
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venus
Hi purrpurr,
God is in very much control as testified by His feeding mechanism (the eternal tree-seed-tree mechanism) through which we all find our enjoyable sustenance. It means maintenance is still in His hand whereas He has given only the management to humans. Hence whatever humans perform here on earth is their responsibility—whether it is success or failure, it is theirs (not Gods).
You have taken instances of apparent failures of God from the Scriptures. However, scriptures do not belong to God as proved by the internal evidence and external evidence. Internal evidence that Bible is not God’s word is its main theme itself—through one man all became sinners (which means we sin by being alive), for which God is depicted as coming out with a senseless solution—asking His innocent son to be killed by the sinners ‘to take away the sins of the world’ which means God is fighting the sin with greater sin—something that ‘would never occur in the mind of God’ (as people of reason feel--Jeremiah 7:31). External evidence that Bible is not God’s word is that God did not safeguard it from being interpolated [see the reference editions which put things in brackets such as portions after Mark 16:8 ....etc] which He would definitely do if He is the author and owner of Bible; and more important external evidence that it is not God’s communication is that Bible is the basis for all conflicted sects which run into over 41000!
God has left His unmistakable message in the Book of Nature characterized by various cycles that repeat such as tree-seed cycle; water cycle, carbon cycle, day and night, seasons … which show any system (including system of things on earth) would go through cycle of a new beginning-growth-end--something which even Nietzsche discerned. (Eternal Recurrence, written by Nietzsche). As the great Designer of various cycles God majestically rules the whole universe for whom failure is impossible. Even the very design of earth being filled with various life forms and the rest of the universe looking barren give the proof that it takes a Cultivator to plant life on earth, which means not only the earth but also the rest of the barren universe too glorifies God by absence of life forms therein highlighting the too obvious conclusion that the rest of the barren universe would have been blessed with lifeforms only if God wills. This too shows He is in control!
No failure for God.
He is synonym of success.
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Genesis to Revelation = Failure for God
by pleaseresearch inno matter how i look at this.
god comes out losing.
the first humans on earth.
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venus
Hi pleaseresearch,
Good thinking, and I liked the option of quarantining Adam and Eve for all people to know how to make wise decisions in life.
Interestingly, that is what has happened in principle (which would show God is not a failure, but is in very much control)
When Genesis Chapter one says God gave a perfect start to mankind with freedom to eat from all trees, and in parallel account of Genesis chapter two when it says Adam (originally means mankind) was prohibited from a “tree of good and bad” which would bring death—obviously every element is symbolic: Adam, tree of good and bad, death ... etc. Genesis chapter 1 is all about first half of the history in which everything was perfect and Genesis chapter 2 and 3 are about second half of the history in which mankind in general did is shown through a symbolic man--Adam. Eating from “a tree of good and bad” is best understood from looking at the consequence—couple started a game of shifting the blame which is the sign of ego. Hence eating of “tree of the good and bad” symbolizes developing a new awareness in terms of good and bad which seldom has to do with reality. For example, we describe rain as good (if we are farmers, or relaxing at home during summer) and bad (if we are sitting in the cricket stadium to watch the game); yet the fact is that rain is a neutral event—neither good nor bad—a distinction our ego makes depending upon its convenience. Thus tree of good and bad symbolized ego which makes one’s life hell (resembling death, opposite of really living in joyfulness). Even now we can see people creating their own hell because of their ego. Look at the mentality of the rich. “Eight men own the same wealth as the 3.6 billion people who make up the poorest half of humanity.” (https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressreleases/2017-01-16/just-8-men-own-same-wealth-half-world) Everyone knows we enter empty-handed and exit empty-handed. Yet many people want to pile up things which they seldom would need while privation and poverty exist on the other side. Thus it is their mere thinking that they can be happy only if they see people in poverty against themselves being placed in abundance. It takes only seconds for Jews and Palestinians to live in paradise if they begin to think “let us forget our past and live together as brothers.” Root cause of all problems is egoistic thinking which can be uprooted within seconds if one wants to.
But many are not willing to do that. For this, solution is to have a two halves of history—first half for the egoless and the second half for the egoistic who would live as though quarantined because they don't live in the first half of the history. Design of this would be such that the egoless start their lives in the first half and live through second half too where they would serve as a moral force here and there in the role of great people where as the egoistic take birth only in the second half which would naturally end in “Last Days” as described in 2Tim 3:1-15. This would necessitate God to “renew” things for the cycle of history to go on ((Mathew 19:28) something which even Nietzsche discerned. (Eternal Recurrence, written by Nietzsche).
It means history is a cycle of renewal and eventual pollution. We are now eye-witnesses of pollution of the nature with its water resources and air being treated like global garbage cans whereas people of the many cultures were eye-witnesses of perfect environment because they were taking good care of the nature and keeping it beautified—a fact that we can glean from their ancient stories [which are reflections of their time] that show they were worshipping things such as forces of nature, river …..etc. This is not about literal worship, but is to be understood in contrast to the attitude we display now towards nature.
My main source of information is the living mankind. We have the history of nations (individuals collective) which proves a simple mechanism—one action/happening leads to another action/happening which becomes the cause of another action/happening. For example, Israel performed genocide which only returned to them later like a boomerang (which means God did not authorize its cause or its future boomeranging effect—it’s all mere natural outcome). What is true of individuals collective is true of each individual too whether their past history is visible or not. Behind all the details, essence is that what an individual or individuals (collective) think, speak, and do is the energy they send out; and all their experiences are the energy that returns to them.
There are certain things we are all sure about:
1) New things become old as time passes;
2) We all come through (not from) our parents who in turn come through (not from) their parents which means humans have no beginning; and
3) There is a gradual increase of population ..etc. which shows that we descend from our heavenly home in certain order like children come out to play in different timings.
Some (the egoless) enjoy their play because they do not take its details too seriously whereas others (the egoistic) create a hell for them because they take every detail of the game too seriously. In the end everything is polluted and decadent which calls for the regular renewal; and all children return home at the same time; and next cycle begins. I have an added advantage because I have studied Clinical Psychiatry and also Past Regression which also gave me some more insight into the way things happen here. When I myself underwent Past Regression, information buried in my own subconscious mind surfaced revealing many of my past lives—and in the immediate past birth I was a Spanish Franciscan nun who was martyred because of my blind and over zeal (which means I took the details too seriously) which provided the basis for my present life in which I am not attached to any religion or ism; but transcend all of them looking for essence rather than details. Abraham Maslow got it right when he said: “All of life is education and everybody is a teacher and everybody is forever a pupil.” I have answer to all questions in my body—it goes through a new beginning, growth, old, and cycle repeats—which is just one among many other cycles that repeat such as water cycle, carbon cycle, day and night, season …
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What if God never changed the languages
by pleaseresearch inwe have the account of god changing our languages and thus we all separated all over the world.. i wonder how different, maybe even peaceful if god didn't do that.. looking at the story now it seems pathetic that he needed to do this to stop men wanting to reach the heavens to take a sneaky peek at him.
we've been much further than mankind back then could have ever imagined and god isn't visible.. but yeah how different would history have been if this account never happened..
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venus
Confusing the language is evidence of poor imagination on the part of Bible writers because no loving father would resort to such an everlasting trouble to mankind to solve a temporary and minor problem of stopping a building construction.
If Bible writers had lived in the time of Internet Age, they could have found out how languages developed. Look at the most frequently used words such as God, father and mother, and one can see the evolution.
Dev (Sanskrit), Deo (Latin), Divine being / deity (English) .....
Bap (Sanskrit), pater (Latin), father (English) .....
Ma Sanskrit), mater (Latin), mother (English)....
When the word thus travels, its form and pronunciation slightly changes and finally takes a form and pronunciation which have no resemblance to the original. It is like asking a group of people to show the gesture of taking a bath, and ask another group to copy them--thus to many batches... in the end you will find people staging a group dance which rarely resembles to taking a bath.