Posts by anonymouz

15

Baptismal regeneration

by Laika in

i've decided to start a thread on christian theology, wherein i will lay out what i believe scripture teaches about baptism... because i can.

throughout the first 1500 years of christian history, it was universally understood that the christian is 'born again' at water baptism (and the majority of christians still hold to this) but then many christians started to argue that baptism was just a symbol of obedience, but i posit that nowhere in the bible will you find a verse that claims baptism is just a symbol, instead scriptural references to baptism always claim that it actually achieves something:.

john 3:5 - born of water and spirit.

anonymouz

It seems Paul was anointed when he saw the light in a literal and also internal way. Cornelius was anointed prior to baptism. But it shows he got baptized thereafter directly. And Christ was anointed at baptism. It is possible some are anointed prior to or at baptism and realize it more fully later. It is apparent conversely, some are not anointed at all, but believe they are.

But since a baptized human is not instantly actually reborn as spirit being, it has to be a symbol of an actual event to come later, as with Christ who had to actually die, be baptized into death, first. Earth the planet was baptized into death state at the flood. And is baptized by fire into a life state under Christ for "regeneration" purposes, as Peter makes that connection.

Interesting concept. Babies do come from water so to speak as well when they leave their mother.

21

what we studied at the the congregation "bible" study this week.

by nowwhat? in

at the congregation bible study this week, we as jehovahs witnesses studied a brochure on how we study the bible at the congregation bible study.

no wonder half of us are screwed up..

anonymouz

The GB aren't even good actors. Except to most JWs used to the show. In general the GB lacks any real enthusiasm, it appears scripted and it is, and you can tell they do not really believe what they tell JWs. They have no passion or true conviction. They seem almost dead when they speak. It in time becomes apparent it is all an act, literally.

20

What if Jehovah's Witnesses were right about Armageddon...

by Comatose in

but god has changed his mind?

according to the bible god can and does change his mind.

the example of jonah comes to mind.

anonymouz

The 8th King UN NGO allied Bethel KNOWS something big is about to happen soon. So do a lot of other people and researchers, theorists, groups, etc. It will not be "Armageddon" as Bethel misleads JWs to confuse them and aid the cessation of that formerly anti-UN ministry. It is already ceased as far as any accuracy now.

What is about to start will take a decade or so to resolve in a tribulation cycle starting and ending as per Matt24:29. That is because UN world government as 8th human kingdom is planning to rule the world, not destroy it, so even the "great tribulation" Bethel preaches is also not "the end of the world" according to their own Bible and rules of engagement of Armageddon.

Like WW1 and WW2 and cold war that birthed UN related renditions after those conflicts were resolved, a world tribulation of type engineered and designed, is for the chaos effect from which new order is established. This coming "new order" is a full UN centric but greatly expanded international, multi-national world government totality. Not just an international UN forum "image" of such a world government in progress, but the Rev17:12-18 and Rev16:13-16 real thing, global uni-polar ultimate power world government. (Dan11:42-45 final cycle).

And that is not going to occur tomorrow, it takes years to realize and a final globalization cycle aided by a tribulatory aided consolidation of world power upon a final national decline that must also recover (Isa41:1) into a "freedom from care" (Dan8:25) and a world "peace and security" (1Thess5:1-3) a number of years after inception of the final cycle. A completion phase is also a requirement of that international secular system itself.

Thus Bethel is NOT so brain dead as to not see this. As per internal UN NGO reality, they are merely aiding the process by also derailing and removing the JW organizational system to aid this final cycle in that sector of potential opposition in exposure of Daniel 11:30-45 as the 3rd (of 4) and 4th (of 4) UN placements in prophecy and world hisory and projections. And by that Bethel engineered deception they sell JWs a premature "the end" cycle and a handy self fulfilling prophecy of Bethel's financial and organizational destructions, over a couple years to aid the beginning of this final globalization phase.

Bethel full well knows (as do world elites) that final globalization cycle has a beginning as Dan11:42-43 financial pawning phase of globalization of national economies and finances, but they will sell that to JWs as terminal Daniel 11:44-45 attack phase misapplied and premature in the phasing, which it will not thus actually be, and cannot be in the process of actual world globalization into world governmental power. And that by prophecy AND the globalization projection itself.

Bethel states a tribulation is coming. That much is true. But it is Bethel that "can end any day now brothers!", not the overall world system. And that tribulation cycle must end as in the three previous world war/tribulation formulas presenting a form of, at that time not yet complete, world government in 1919, 1945 and 1990, and as stated plain as day at Matt24:29 the tribulation cycle ends. It ends into full world government 8th King actuality.

Bethel knows what the real target is in the start of the final cycle as far as their operations, to attempt to shut down JWs permanently organizationally for starters. These delusions in JW theology aid that process.

And that is why they sell JWs a potential for great anxious confusion that can aid a Bethel implosion, internally aided by Bethel's top administration, and covered up with misapplied prophecy so JWs have no idea what is really going on. As far as an event or events coming up, the web has been full of that vibe in increasing fashion since even 911. The national financial condition of multi-100s-of-trillions in national debt and unfunded liabilities sets up the Daniel 11:42-43 finance/wealth cycle plainly obvious in that meaning of financial and monetary globalization first, upon total control of the "gold and the silver" basis of world wealth, and all national holdings as the "all the desirable things of Egypt", as "Egypt" is finale "King South" national declination, southbound power in symbol, upon which international power ascends to apex "King North".

International global government power is what King North is as 8th King ultimately. (Dan11:27-45) Another detail Bethel also subverts successfully. (Dan11:30-31; Dan8:11-14). It's getting a little too logical Bethel is a UN allied troop of expert actors leading JWs into an engineered multi-year purposeful catastrophe on a worldwide scale as merely part of the inception activities of the final world globalization cycle that has to go on after that inception, for another 10 years, plus/minus.

Many in the world already know the UN plans to be the center of a real uni-polar world government. (Even Ron Paul (and Vladimir Putin, and many others) plainly describes it as such) And that is exactly what the "8th King" will achieve for a while.

29

For all believers: I have a serious question

by confusedandalone in

god ordered the killing of men women and children and animals and pillaging of various nations around them.

in some instances god apparently led the way with his might arm.. this is not a question of wether it is right or wrong, but moreso a question(s) of:.

1. if you were there would you have personally participated in those killings or would you ignore the commands?.

anonymouz

The nations do that right now in allied wars of Global NATO and others. And those roots go back to Nimrod of Gen10-11. And everyone now can research exactly what Canaanites practiced as organized child sacrifice as part of their conquest priorities.

So not as a justification, but at that time in human history if one did not have the likes of Samson and David as all around a$$ kickers upon people who wanted to come in and burn your children to Baal or Molech, as a dedication to ancient Nimrod, that is exactly what happened. So we cannot know all the details of what was a war of serpent seed spreading that also occurred in Genesis 6, according to the Bible record, and if one is going to play Christian, one might as well respect the central rule book.

This is not jusitification it was a sign of those times. But Christ changed the story. Although having the ability to call on "twelve legions of angels" of which only one could wipe out all Italy and Jerusalem proper, he sacrificed his own life to seal the changing of the times, not for the world, but for people of God.

The world still practices all of the above to enrich the central finance, technology and industrial complex with also needed supplies and fuel (like oil and more capital) to continue the same pattern from Gen11. Being Christian now means laying down the sword if one really wants to actually follow Christ, so God's permission of war was for a greater purpose. It is not God today, but politicians who command wars with aid of various philosophers and religious leaders, ultimately for the central top internationalist financiers. It is all about power and money to continue the conquests later.

Thus God separating a peaceful people, also keeps them free of the actual implications of what war really is, not what they tell everyone is the reasons. Since even before WW1, but especially since then, all these powers have directed resources to more war potential. (Isa2:1-4; Joel3:9-12). It is not the international bankers and financiers that fight those wars, it is they who get richer and expand the operation due to them.

40

Feb 15 study W/T up on jw.org

by konceptual99 in

latest wt is up.. reinforces jesus becoming king in 1914 (no let up on that date).

marriage of the lamb to the 144,000. yawn.... yawn..... celebrates the 100 year anniversary of the photo drama of creation.

it seems to me that every 100 year anniversary shall be celebrated just to try and take the wind from the sails of apostates.. .

anonymouz

The GB are not anointed or Christian. Therefore they cannot know any details of the past. All they do is very "smoothly worded" blasphemies to cap off their reign as "evil slave" reps. (Dan11:32a; 2Thess2:3; Zech3:1-3).

All one has to do is watch an annual meeting video to see these guys are even bored acting and have zero "fire of the spirit" even when they roll off their scripted talks. They are dead pans barely even enthusiastic, when you know it is all an act, they even look like they are acting as well, and poorly at that.

You cannot fake God's spirit in general or in an anointing and they have neither. The GB never did exist in Jerusalem or the Bible, and in reality they still do not exist, the basic premise of the "Governing Body" is an untruth and the foundation of the current JW lie. How can something that is not itself true, or found in Acts 15 or Rev2-3, ever actually speak the truth? (2Thess2:11-12). In essence, the GB myth is a lie in itself.

The first Christ commendation of Rev 2 is? FRAUD DETECTION:

(Revelation 2:2) 2 ‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot bear bad men, and that you put those to the test who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them liars.

And there in little words lies the Governing Body, no pun intended.

==

And they also claim Apostolic succession now as well:

""The channel he used for spiritual feeding was clearly recognizable. After all, the apostles—the original members of the governing body—could provide visible proof of heavenly backing.""

(WT 7/15/13 pg. 18, par. 12)

15

Sometimes you just want to scream

by Separation of Powers in

well, i have been posting here on and off for a while now.

it is good to see the progress that so many have made.

i have appreciated your experiences, your humour, your struggles, etc.. as i sit here today, i realize that i have made progress as well.

anonymouz

Renewed focus of the JW primary original tracking of UN development has stalled for now 22 years. It is apparent JWs are mum on UN 3rd manifestation of 1990 as Bethel instead became a UN NGO co-promoter of that governmental statement of global order - the "new world order" term that spikes in JW publications between 1991-2001 on the WTLib CD.

So between the lines, Bethel has become a UN annex that also diverts any Biblical awareness that a 3rd UN placement is even significant, leads to a final 4th UN placement to complete te super-cycle from 1919, 1945, 1990 and the future. To JWs in general, all time stopped at UN 2nd placement of 1945 - nothing else matters. And if JWs and others lost track of that trajectory to where it leads as the primary focus of the tracking of the rival 8th Kingdom of mankind (UN full world government) since the 1920's to 1990 lost, slowly deprogrammed to inconsequential by the Bethel hypnotists, then no other formerly pressing JW truth of the past matters either any longer in JW reality. It is all now an afterimage illusion, an echo chamber, a Bethel parrot show.

JWs do not realize that they are no longer the same JWs as 1940s version, they are no longer Kingdom witnesses, but UN affiliates and co-promoters to their segment of the world audience for UN purposes, not God's Kingdom any longer.

So even JWs are now lulled into a coma and can't even keep track of their own former ministerial priority of the main subject matter here: World Rulership. That trajectory formerly tracked by JW, forming a far larger momentum of that 1920-1960 peak of spiritual concern in tracking, what were then, modern UN events and Messianic Kingdom events, that both manifested concurrently at approximately the same time of 1919 League of Nations rival proclamation first, as JWs started to congeal a Kingdom of God competitive proclamation as the impetus of their 1914 ministry continuation, is now lost completely in modern JWs, or UNW's.

At one time a United Nations development was big news to JWs. Not any more! It's all "the organization", and GB, blah, blah, blah. An idolatrous carnival of Bethel sychpants.

Even if it was all make believe, JWs did directly affront the then formative "new world order" UN related system with a diametric statement of world rulership destiny from 1920s to 1960s. Today's JWs instead are UN NGO and hush hush the whole UN continued evolution, that like post WW1, WW2 and cold war, also will, as per quadruple formula, require a tumultuous final world cycle of globalization finalities to eventually present an actual world government, say a decade from now. (Hence why the Matt24:29 "tribulation" also ends in "peace and security" at that time. To JWs this makes no sense, because Bethel is UN stagnant and the core subversion and diversion).

JWs are setting up their own end game prematurely.

Strangely, JWs have created a self fulfilling prophecy that instead ends their own ministry "any day now", rather than the obvious realization a final globalization cycle is needed to complete the "8th King" world government far beyond the scale and function, but including, the UN. So as David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger and others in the developmental thinktanks of 8th King world government now proclaim a final cycle, JWs instead preach a premature end, which can only be realized on Bethel now, as a JW self fulfilling prophecy, not the world system as a whole.

Or else God and Christ would show up to find no world rulership contender ready for battle for earth's sovereign supremacy, according to JWs own rules of engagement. So weirdly, JWs have taken an exit way way off "the road to life" and abandoned their former destination and meaning, as well as modern awareness of globalization, and are themselves lacking any true hub of unity in that Bethel diversion now completing.

It's a strange let down by lead Bethel snoozing hypocrites. Hopefully people can stay in tune with the Bible that already does outline all four renditions of UN evolution to final form (Dan11:31-45), and that must continue in development to were it must lead as per the whole gist of the former JW "Armageddon" ministry.

JWs, as a whole in general, have of course not progressed in UN understanding since 2nd placement UN 1945. To JWs, the 1990 UN "new world order" statements as another way of saying world government order, are totally insignificant, and harmless. One can even join the UN proclamations henceforth as UN NGO, and jump ship from the Messianic Kingdom former proclamation and cause, and everything is just fine.

It is just a matter of time and JWs will also be scattered, the unity is already gone, Bethel is a grenade ready to blow. It cannot simply remain a static affair either for Bethel or the UN readying final cycle inevitable activation soon. True it goes on a decade, but JWs will be scattered at the start of that cycle to finalize their true internally scattered condition since 1990 easily seen in hindsight from before then.

And that will be a signal many have been seeking. What occurs after is a required purification and clarification of reality. The UN will be in it's fourth developmental drive to complete actual world government, and JWs will need to wake up, and face the facts, and remember their former ministry of JWs of long ago (1914-1950).

19

Why has nobody started a petition or writing letters to congress, etc?

by EndofMysteries in

i can't be in the spotlight as starting this because of a family member.

but i wonder why there is no big change.org type petition going on with hundreds of thousands of signatures, etc.

or putting together a nice letter about how jw's religion breaks up families, claims to want religious freedom but those of us born in, or just in, are forced to accept their lies and anything they say or get shunned, and the devastating emotional, etc, effects on people.

anonymouz

I think in this Bethel engineered diffusion, that there is nothing else to believe in for most people as a hub of unity, or motivation of a mass indictment against Bethel forming on that hub. All people can agree on is the JW org has fully devolved now. For example, how far back that devolution began then starts another division. So there is no framework that ties this JW devolution to anything as it's real cause as then the GB are just generalized corruption in humans, or Adamic, or however anyone wanted to see it.

Few would think this indicates a final judgment cycle and a UN evolution in about a decade to an actual international scale world government. Thus that renewed focus of the JW primary original tracking of UN development also cannot crystallize - it too is stalled. It is apparent JWs are mum on UN 3rd manifestation of 1990 as Bethel instead became a UN NGO co-promoter of that governmental statement of global order - the "new world order" term that spikes in JW publications between 1991-2001.

So between the lines, Bethel has become a UN annex that also diverts any Biblical awareness that a 3rd UN placement leads to a final UN placement some years from now. To JWs in general, all time stopped at UN 2nd placement of 1945 - nothing else matters. And if JWs and others lost track of that trajectory to where it leads as the primary focus of the tracking of the rival 8th Kingdom of mankind (UN full world government) since the 1920's to 1990 lost, slowly deprogrammed to inconsequential by the Bethel hypnotists, then no other pressing JW truth of the past matters either any longer in JW reality. It is all now an afterimage illusion.

So even JWs are now lulled into a coma and can't even keep track of their own former trajectory by a far larger momentum of that 1930-1960 peak of spiritual concern in tracking, what were then, modern UN events and Messianic Kingdom events, that both manifested concurrently at approximately the same time of 1919 League of Nations rival proclamation first, as JWs later started to congeal a Kingdom of God proclamation meaning as the impetus of their 1914 ministry continuation.

At one time a United Nations development was big news to JWs, not any more.

Even if it was all make believe, JWs did directly affront the then formative "new world order" with a diametric statement of world rulership destiny from 1920s to 1950s. Today's JWs instead are UN NGO and hush hush the whole UN continued evolution that like post WW1, WW2 and cold war, also will, as per formula, require a trying final world cycle of globalization finalities to eventually present an actual world government, say a decade from now.

Strangely, JWs self fulfilling prophecy instead ends their own ministry "any day now", rather than the obvious realization a final globalization cycle is needed to complete the "8th King" world government far beyond in scale and function, but including, the UN. So as David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger and others in the developmental thinktanks of world government now proclaim a final cycle, JWs instead preach a premature end, which can only be realized on Bethel now, not the world system as a whole.

Or else God and Christ would show up to find no contender ready for battle for earth's sovereign supremacy, according to JWs own rules of engagement. So weirdly, JWs have taken an exit way way off "the road to life" and abandoned their former destination and meaning, as well as modern awareness of globalization, and are themselves lacking any true hub of unity in that diversion now complete.

Of course others falling off that JW turnip truck weaving around the backstreets of LA, now miles off track and lost, are turnips with also no direction, just rolling to a stop, seeing the JW truck heading off to self prophesied early disaster. And in that disunity and natural chaos of mind, there is nothing else to gravitate towards but an awareness of the JW condition, and the only solution is to be as one was before ever finding JWs. It's a strange let down, hopefully people can stay in tune with the Bible that already does outline all four renditions of UN evolution to final form, and that must continue in development to were it must lead.

JWs, as a whole in general, have of course not progressed in UN understanding since 2nd placement UN 1945. To JWs, the 1990 UN "new world order" statements as another way of saying world governmental order, are totally insignificant, and harmless. One can even join the UN proclamations henceforth as UN NGO, and jump ship from the Messianic Kingdom former proclamation and cause, and everything is just fine.

It is just a matter of time and JWs will also be as scattered when the Bethel turnip truck rolls on the UN sidestreets. It cannot simply remain a static affair either for Bethel or the UN final cycle inevitable activation soon. True it goes on a decade, but JWs will be scattered turnips at the start of that cycle. Really the turnips, as us leaving JWs, is just due to Bethel losing any magnetism of actual truth, decharged by hypocrisy and lawless alliances, and it would take another Taze Russell type personality and resources to even form a new nucleus by human means (meaning only God himself could save JWs now), and another period of human existence, because many other institutions will also be in deconstruction in this coming next 5 years of the initial financial globalization process. (From when it starts).

45

A mistake in fading 4 months ago is coming back to haunt me... HELP!!

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

so today, two elders from a congregation i was in two years ago came by the house.

they said they wanted to talk to me about things that they have heard, and that they want to talk to me very quickly, as soon as possible.

perhaps before this week ends.. i don't know what to do!!

anonymouz

In a worst case scenario, flip the TTATT into a TTATTATT, and say "brother can you explain to me" "this and that" )about a known TTATT issue), BUT act non-committed, like you are not sure if they really purposely distribute known pedophiles organizationally, or "geeez bro, maybe they really did need that library card, huh?" (If he even knows about the UN NGO), or something like that.

That way they leave answering your "questions", not you answering their's, you buy some time, act as if you are merely exploring the possibilities and can leave it at that. The next time just have more questions. You ask the questions remember, let them do the answering, and that may defuse the cornered Bobcat effect. (from exploding in their face).

20

What if Jehovah's Witnesses were right about Armageddon...

by Comatose in

but god has changed his mind?

according to the bible god can and does change his mind.

the example of jonah comes to mind.

anonymouz

Many religions are right about Armageddon. JWs as well. But the nature of it and significance of the "place" eludes many. With JW it is the timing that eludes them. JWs think "it can end any day now brothers!!!".

But according to Bible logic, prophecy, and the basic globalization process of the rival world government of humans on planet earth (8th King) a final cycle (Dan12; Rev8-11; Rev16 parallel) and another decade prior to full human international government actually completing is required.

And without that "8th King" actually being a KING beyond a UN "image" meaning (Rev13:11-15), function and scope, there can be no Armageddon. It needs to be a real world government fully empowered internationally, a real 8th King full bodied "scarlet wildbeast". (Rev17:8-18)

So JWs have premature expectations and a stalled theology that will toss them into the beginning of that final cycle as bewildered as the next guy, because it must go on a number of years (Dan8:14; + Dan12:7(Rev11:2-3)) and a few Bible events and world events beyond the JW "deadline" also must manifest as per Bible prophecy and internationalist projections marking the final progression.

==

So if you are privvy to basic logical appreciation, over the next decade human "8th King" world government will indeed become vocal prior to completion beyond current elite murmurings and low key press. Once the world has passed the "point of no return" for national sovereign power (financially next; (Dan11:42-43)), soon to start the final slide of national sovereign declination into internationalist ascendancy, you can gauge UN centric world governmental totality of international completion by their own announcements.

And that is your monitor to know when an "Armageddon event" of divine intervention could actually be all systems go. As the UN world government completes, that would also trigger Armageddon prelude finalities. (Dan8:25; Dan11:45 Dan12:11; Rev11:7; Rev19:19-21)

So JWs live mentally in 1970 perpetual world snapshot as to globalization awareness as the primary basis of the "gathering" power of Rev16:13-16 as foundational world government power internationally. They got the basic gist of a sort of repeating Genesis 11 "globalism" and divine intervention nature of an Armageddon event on a renewed form of globalized world kingdom (Zeph3:8-9), but they are premature in it's manifestation forecast, and it's basic prophetic requirement to have a completed and announced (1Thess5:1-3) rival world government as full 8th King for Christ's Kingdom to be fighting.

If God and Christ came down "any day now", they would find no human Kingdom ready for battle; (Joel3:9-12).

Thus by plain logic, the 8th King actual world governemt must complete before any Armageddon divine war could even theoretically manifest. And that will require a final globalization cycle for full national sovereign deposition of financial and governmental "power and authority" completely (Rev17:12-18), and that will take a good decade to achieve.

The final cycle can start any day (Dan11:42-45), but it can not end as expected by JWs prematurely, before that final cycle completes.

6

Are we rebelling like Korah, against God's appointed GB? A super simple question to backfire that accusation

by EndofMysteries in

the next time or if that ever gets brought up, that leaving the organization is following the rebelliousness of korah, since the wt likes to have that in one of the magazines every 2 to 3 months, ask this...... okay, i understand the concern on leaving god's appointed and rebelling against them.

let me ask this, was moses inspired?

was the apostle paul inspired?

anonymouz

The Governing Body is not appointed by God. They are not mentioned in the Bible. Their concept is not mentioned in the Bible other than the decentralized "body of the Christ". They are not a Biblical entity. The are a specialized corporate "board of directors". Nothing less, nothing more, a sham, act, crock, basically a lie.

Therefore their role is that of Korah as they discredit and compete with the "body of the Christ".

And they will meet a similar fate in that collective body so JWs some day can get with Christian reality.

Moses and Paul had to be inspired by the prophecies they spoke and the things they wrote. No one can conjour even Genesis 1 from thin air, no one can give the detail of Gen6-11 from fiction. Genesis 10 contains the roots of all nations of earth shown by a number of secular sources.

The "governing body" is the lie of 2Thess2:11-12 in modern form, and the architects of the JW "operation of error" and a lawlessness control council. Although others must be involved to create a concreted theology over the JW mind that can desolate a billion dollar relgious empire soon, and sell it to JWs as prophecy and create a self fulfilling prophecy whereby JWs expect an organizational deconstruction and will actually aid it like zombies and robots for it's first couple years - but the GB talking heads and grinning mugs must be the ones to massage it into the JW mental meat as marinade of illusion for 37 years of this unique JW administrative experiment.

Even in JWs the very mention of a "governing body" was not made before 1940, it's letters were capitalized as a Governing Body in 1971, so this creeping cancer of corruption is also foreign to early JWs, and IBSA, and the entire Bible.

In most basic terms the Biblical "governing body" is untrue. As appointed by God it is basically blasphemy. All in all it's essence is called a "lie".

==

But now they are also the modern day apostles:

“”The channel he used for spiritual feeding was clearly recognizable. After all, the apostles—the original members of the governing body—could provide visible proof of heavenly backing.”"

(WT 7/15/13 pg. 18, par. 12)

"After all", it's but another lie. With this and the FDS latest, the blasphemy seems to have no limit with these new highs.

JWs will just have to admit the GB is but a fiction slowly rationalized in the religion and is now the Bethel "root of all evil", plain and simple. They cannot even be Christian much less anointed. A total act, a fantasy, a charade, a fiction, not true, non-existent as far as God is concerned, a sham, a con, a lie, NOT the truth.

No wonder they are the source of "the lie" that they grow in JWs.