Posts by undercover

49

Catholic "Just War" Doctrine vs JW Pacifist Doctrine

by rocketman in

having been a practicing jehovah's witness for 30 years, i had been exposed to their pacifist doctrine, which taught that christians were not to enlist in armies or participate in warfare on any level.

this doctrine was later modified somewhat to allow for non-military "alternative" service as a matter of conscience.. i had always thought of the jw doctrine as lofty.

it was based on bible verses such as isaiah 2:4 and matthew 26:52. the idea was that, if all people were jehovah's witnesses, carnal warfare would be eliminated.

undercover

I knew about the fireman. I had met him. He was a friend of some friends of mine. He died trying to help save lives; he rushed into a burning building. That was a brave and noble act.

I'm not questioning if God protects one group over another. I assume that he doesn't.

My question is, would a JW have helped in trying to overtake hi-jacker/terrorists who had seized their plane? The passengers on the plane that crashed in PA had heard about the other planes being hi-jacked and crashed into buildings. These passengers, knowing that this fate awaited them, made a plan of action and staged a counter-offensive against the hi-jackers. At this point, it is clear that the hi-jackers are anti-American and this is an an act of war against America. If a JW was to remain politically neutral he would have to decline in strategizing or helping in any kind of manuever to regain control of the plane. What purpose does this pacifism serve? Would it not be better to die fighting trying to stay alive than sit back and passively await death?

49

Catholic "Just War" Doctrine vs JW Pacifist Doctrine

by rocketman in

having been a practicing jehovah's witness for 30 years, i had been exposed to their pacifist doctrine, which taught that christians were not to enlist in armies or participate in warfare on any level.

this doctrine was later modified somewhat to allow for non-military "alternative" service as a matter of conscience.. i had always thought of the jw doctrine as lofty.

it was based on bible verses such as isaiah 2:4 and matthew 26:52. the idea was that, if all people were jehovah's witnesses, carnal warfare would be eliminated.

undercover

Going back to the first post for a moment;

Interesting points. I have had similar thoughts myself.

Here's something that I have thought about since Sept. 11; What if a JW had been on the hijacked plane that the passengers tried to take back. Would he have stuck with his WT ideals in not "being part of the world" and refrained from getting involved in a violent act to try to take the plane back?

I have put myself on that plane and I hope that I would have been one of the ones who tried to make a difference. I would hate to think that I would have spent my last moments of life cowering behind some fanatical religious belief refusing to try to help save lives, because I wouldn't get involved in some political controversy.

While JWs may not accept the pacifist label, thier teachings and actions reflect otherwise.

63

New Age Jehovah's Witness Youth

by Obviously Secret in

jw
friends

i'm new to the forums so i just wanted to say hi.

kind of nervous at the moment.. i'm one of the jehovah's witness kids that is looking for the whole truth.

i go to the meetings and have my own problems with the organization but i do believe in alot of it's beliefs.. since i got that out the way i wanted to see what other people think about the newer jehovah's witness teens.

undercover

I was pretty naive as a young JW teenager. I remember going to a party when I was about 15-16 at a JW friends house. This was an organized, chaperoned party. Even though parents were there, I was surprised at the music played, the clothes worn and the flirting go on. I knew my parents and the elders would have been upset. I was pretty shocked. How could JW parents allow this kind of thing to go on? But, that was just a taste of what I was to see and learn.

Later, as I had a drivers license and could get out more, I attended unchaperoned parties and gatherings. While I never saw any drug use, alcohol was prevelant and loose conduct was rampant. I learned more drinking games at convention hotel parties than I ever did from any "worldy" connections. I managed to tow the line and not go overboard and get into any real trouble, but I saw lots of people doing things that would get them DF'd. Since I was one to keep my mouth shut, people tended to trust me to observe these things without fear of me running to the elders. I managed to balance the fence rail for most of my youth. I was liked and used by the brothers at the hall, but also liked and trusted by the kids who were just waiting to get away from their parents and the "truth". At the time I thought I was quite bright to get away with it, but now, I feel like I wasn't being myself. I was letting people direct me.

Many of the people that I grew up with have left the "truth". Out of the people that I knew from these experiences only one or two have remained "active" JWs. Out of my peers, only two of the brothers became elders, and one of them has since been DF'd. Some of the sisters pioneered out of school, but one by one, got married and drifted or moved away. Repressive religions, as the JWs, will always have a high rate of defecting youths.

36

RUSSIA: Sacked for being Jehovah's Witnesses

by blondie in

jw
friends

this article was published by f18news on: 4 may 2004russia: sacked for being jehovah's witnesses

by geraldine fagan, moscow correspondent, forum 18 news service

sergei popov and aleksandr takhteyev, two of three jehovah's witnesses sacked on 1 april by a private firm on the russian pacific island of sakhalin, claimed to forum 18 news service that there was a direct link between the decision to sack them and the ban on the jehovah's witnesses in the russian capital imposed by a moscow court several days earlier.

undercover

'And they will definitely kill their children at the word of their religious superiors. They do.

Undercover, you are wrong. This country has a dangerously knee-jerk reaction to First Amendment issues.

Not everything is a perfectly okay 'freedom' just because you call it a religion.'

I hate these blanket statements, "...they will definitely kill their children....". JWs do not kill their children. One who is not familiar with the situation could read into this statement that a JW will actually take weapon to hand and kill their child if told to by an elder. That is not true. JWs do let their children die in certain circumstances and to do so is horrible and senseless and I understand the anger of people when this subject comes up but to make blanket statements that JWs kill their children is not a completely true statement.

I don't think I am wrong. To deny anyone civil and human rights, no matter what their religion, faith, color, nationality is wrong. If it's so okay, lets round up all the Muslims in the US and deport them, because some of them might be terrorists. I don't know how the Russian laws or amendments work regarding religion, but if they advocate freedom of religion, then singling out one religion to ban is wrong.

The blood policy is wrong and people die beacuse of it. Families are disrupted because of shunning. JWs are a high control group, cult if you like. I will not defend their faith or beliefs but I also will not cheer when they are singled out and banned as a religion and their members suffer for it. If they banned Mormons tomorrow would we all cheer and be happy about it?

63

Jehovahs Witness Is A Cult?

by Spooner in

so?

undercover

yup i win

whoopee. So you look down on one cult from your "superior" cult?

43

Few Black/African people on this board

by Joker10 in

jw
friends

a while ago it was asked what your ethnic background was and only 2 said they were some percent black.

why do you think few black people actively speak out against wt?

few african-americans can be seen protesting at assemblies.

undercover

I don't know about the anointed bit but I do remember a quote that said something to the effect of, "the colored friends are humble and easily teachable". It was very condescending and treated them as second class citizens. I'm sure Blondie can list the reference.

36

RUSSIA: Sacked for being Jehovah's Witnesses

by blondie in

jw
friends

this article was published by f18news on: 4 may 2004russia: sacked for being jehovah's witnesses

by geraldine fagan, moscow correspondent, forum 18 news service

sergei popov and aleksandr takhteyev, two of three jehovah's witnesses sacked on 1 april by a private firm on the russian pacific island of sakhalin, claimed to forum 18 news service that there was a direct link between the decision to sack them and the ban on the jehovah's witnesses in the russian capital imposed by a moscow court several days earlier.

undercover

JWs or not, this is not good. Human and civil rights are at issue here.

Now looking at it from inside the Watchtower, this is a double edged sword. On one hand they have to fight to win their freedoms back. They will have to convince authorities that they are not a threat. But there is a silver lining in this cloud: they can use this as a marketing tool to towards their flock and interested ones, "See, we're being persecuted. Didn't we tell you that it would happen. The time is getting close, friends. Don't let your guard down. It can happen here tomorrow."

63

Jehovahs Witness Is A Cult?

by Spooner in

so?

undercover

Patriotism is an example .
omg

Actually, I think he has a point. He said "Hard-core patriotism", not just, "Patriotism". There is a difference.

63

Jehovahs Witness Is A Cult?

by Spooner in

so?

undercover

If JWs are a cult, then every religion is. The same can be said about community organizations. They all use use some sort of 'mind-control'. Hard-core Patriotism is an example. And even discrimination.

Thank you, Joker, for your explanation.

I agree with you for the most part. All religions are cults if you go by the strict definition. Including the Catholic Church.

What makes JWs and certain other sects stand out is that they do not allow dissention on any level. To disagree or to question doctrine is paramount to "apostasy" or disobeying God. This, along with some other things, causes people to think of JWs as a "cult". Granted, by definition, that's not much of an insult, but by the common meaning by the average person, it denotes a negative connotation and is derogatory.

Since the JWs are a control group then I have to agree with those who think of the JWs as cult-like and repressive to its members.

63

Jehovahs Witness Is A Cult?

by Spooner in

so?

undercover

No

Care to explain why not?

Saying JWs are NOT a cult without some explanation is as bad as someone saying they ARE a cult without explanation.