Posts by undercover

Back in the 60s, on the way to a 7 day convention, the JW family we rode with taped WT and Awakes on the rear side windows of their station wagon. 7 hour drive. 7 hours of service...

101

New field service rules coming this summer

by doinmypart in

jw
friends

new guidelines for field service coming this summer.

new publication to be released giving new ways of counting time, conducting studies, group activities, etc..

undercover

New publication to be released giving new ways of counting time, conducting studies, group activities, etc.

Everyone has been focused on counting time, but the 'group activities' caught my eye. I'm curious about that. Congregation activities? Unsanctioned group activities? Related to field service? Or just in general?

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

undercover

After a quick perusal of this thread, here are my initial reactions to some of the things I saw:

The WTS asking each congregation to 'pledge' a monthly amount isn't that far feteched. They've been putting the screws to congregations for some time now, changing arrangements every so often to squeeze more and more out of them as it is. In turn, asking each family/brother to pledge an amount isn't out of the norm either. They've practiced this on lesser levels in times past. I could see this becoming a yearly thing. And making them fill out a form once a year is a reminder to them that they 'owe' Jehovah this, guilting them into forgoing material needs in order to satisfy the WTS.

The WTS taking more hands on control of congregation accounts, to the point that local congreation savings be sent to the WTS is not far fetched. It was only a matter of time before they felt the economic pressure to the point to reach into local pockets to help fill the coffers back up.

Both of those things would barely raise an eyebrow among the rank and file. When they give money, they visualize it all as supporting the WTS, no matter whether it's used locally or in NY. It's all part of their service to Jehovah.

What I find really far-fetched, almost to the level of conspiracy theory fantasy, is the notion that the WTS would stoop to reviewing bank statemenst and tax returns of individual members of the congregation, albeit just brothers or servants. While that notion isn't an official proclomation, or even in the works, I'm suspect of someone that claims to know that WT execs discussed this as an option. It's Scientologist type creepiness. And it would never work. While there may be some old JW widows or not-quite-right dubs that would fall right in line with such a nonsense request, most would balk. Too many UBMs to tell their spouses, "are you nuts?! Let your church look at our records?? NO Fing WAY". Too many fringe dubs to not obey. Oh, they won't come out and complain, but they'll slack off even more, instead of ponying up. And too many savvy, self-employed brothers, who are already 'creative' in how they report taxes, that would bristle at the idea of WT oversight of their record keeping. The more I think about it, the more ridiculous this idea really is. Let's stick with facts and official documentation of what the WTS actually proposes to do, instead of letting imaginations run wild into some conspiracy theory universe, where reality doesn't exist...

17

How do you get a word in edge-wise, when talking to a JW?

by Faithful Witness in

just looking for some pointers, as i was never a jw.

i have an elderette coming over on friday, for another performance.. last week, i was under the impression that she was coming to answer some questions i had.

it quickly became clear that she came with a plan for the "conversation," and we went on an expedition from one passage of the bible to the next, while she made leaping claims, argued with herself and kept me confused and always with more than one question lingering in my mind, while she continued talking and talking.. when i have a conversation with someone, i tend to stop talking when they are speaking.

undercover

She's not there to answer your questions. She's there to convert you to being JW. if you don't want to convert, you're wasting your time conversing with her.

25

How do you get through the memorial?

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

for family reasons, gorby and his wife and children has to visit the hall at april 14. our family accept that we are faders, but don't accept if we do not visit the memorial.. so, it seems a small investment: one evening love bombing for a year peace and rest.. but i hate the visit.

headache.

meeting the people knowing it's all fake love showing.. how do you get through it?.

undercover

For several years I managed to stay completely off the radar. No Memorials. But the last three or four, I've gotten more pressure than before to attend. It's the only time of year that I get any backlash for my being out and gone. For all intents and purposes, I am an ex-JW, except for this one meeting, when both family and old JW friends put the heat on to attend.

And I've come to terms with it. It's just one hour a year. I can deal with it. I've studied, researched and dissected the JW ritual of the Memorial enough to not be swayed by anything done and said during this one hour. I try to liken it to being coerced to attend Mass once a year, as many a backsliding Catholic are pressured to do at either Xmas or Easter. So I go, I play nice, and then when it's over, I go about my business as if I had never attended.

I do pay just enough attention so that if the subject of the talk comes up later, I can point out the errors, inconsistensies, or down right false statements, if cornered and I have to defend my position.

And for those that want to make a statement by partaking, this is my take on that: Personally, I think it's rude and disrespectful. You're on their turf. It's their meeting, their service. Even though they may not respect our position, our lifestyle, our new faith, or lack thereof, I will not lower myself to their standards by shitting all over their beliefs/practices while at their service. I'll defend myself as needed, I'll fight em on my turf if they show up, but if I were to hate them that much, I would just not go to anything JW related and would leave them to their own devices.

32

How Many Here Have Ever Been Reproved or DFd?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so far, not me.....

undercover

Reproved. Counseled numerous times. But never DF'd

46

WTBT$ will no longer support Elder's legally....

by Newly Enlightened in

we received an email and are wondering if anyone can verify this little tidbit of news.

does anyone know if this is true or not?.

maybe any elder's on here?.

undercover

"the elders do not represent the WTS"

They're told that, sure. The WTS wants elders to think that they're actually thinking for themselves, but they're not.

Who gives the elders their elders hand book? The WTS.

Who do elders call when a serious matter (such as child abuse) is brought to their attention? The WTS legal dept.

They don't represent the WTS? Bullshit. They're frontline troops and pawns, fighting the dirtiest of the battles, yet expendable.

43

Critique of Mar 2014 Awake on Creation by Alan Feuerbacher

by jwfacts in

alan feuerbacher has written a tremendous critique of the march 2014 awake!, which contains a grossly dishonest discussion on creation.

the pdf file can be downloaded from awake_march_2014_creation_critique.pdf.

it highlights watchtower use of poor and contradictory reasoning..

undercover

Thanks for this link. I had already developed my own critique of this horribly written WT article, but it was good to see good ole AlanF's in depth skewering of WT logic and doctrine.

The biggest things that stick with me about this WT article are:

The statement that each creative day could take "thousands of years". Not millions, but thousands, which keeps the WT 'official' doctrine of the 7,000 year creative day length intact... even though, as Alan pointed out, they haven't come right out and admitted it since the 80s.

The WT ploy of trying to separate the creation of the heavens (universe) and earth (the planet) from the actual 6 day creative process. The WTS has really gone into full deception with that one. By pretending, or trying to convince its followers, that the earth/heavens could be billions of years old and still everything on earth was created later, it flies against what the Bible itself says in Exodus. It plainly states the 'in 6 days God created the heavens and earth'. If you get in a debate with a JW over that one, ask them if they accept the Bible as final authority and then watch em squirm as they realize that what this article says is in direct opposition to the Bible.

And finally, what the fossil record vs the Bible record does to the teachings about Jesus death. The WTS says science and the Bible agree, yet still asserts that Adam was created 6000 years ago. Science says man has been on this planet much much longer. But the WTS can't deny that Adam is not real. When you go to the Memorial (if you go), notice that they'll spend a portion of it talking about how Adam lost perfection and that's why Jesus has to die...to buy back what Adam lost. Now, if there was no Adam, then Jesus ransom sacrifice is moot. It means nothing. The WTS is in a corner thanks to creationism. They have to accept some verision of it, in order to accept Adam, in order to accept Jesus as ransom sacrifice. If creation is false, if Adam was not real, it all comes crashing down.

79

What Watchtower Belief/View Never Sat Right With You?

by minimus in

but their views on blood are just plain weird!

meat has blood in it even if it's bled.

still eating meat means consuming blood.

undercover

Never dying. I never could wrap my brain around that one. Everyone in history had died. How is it that I happened to be of the very smallest of groups to not have to die? The older I got, the more I doubted it.