undercover

Joined

• started 302 topics
• posted 13,482 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by undercover

• 
  26

  Now finally Caleb & Sofia Anti-Gay Video going viral in Germany too

  by Daniel1555 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  today spiegel online & bento have an article about the anti-gay video.. spiegel is one of the biggest and most serious news media in germany.. they also report and show that youtubers cut the video and changed it in a funny way.

  sofia tells her mother that the teacher said it's fine if they live each other.

  then sofia's mother says: "thats wonderful.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  I agree that the video isn't really shocking. It presents the JW belief, based on the Bible, that being gay is a sin, and not acceptable behavior in order to reach paradise. Most fundamentalists accept the same teaching, substituting heaven for paradise. It's standard MO for religions like this.

  But this comment lets slip your prejudice:

  The cat has been out of the bag a long time ago regarding the biblical stance on this deviant behavior.

  Deviant? This is where people take offense at the WT video, or other anti-gay propaganda. That it's presented as a learned, perverted, deviant lifestyle. Which is not the case. It's something one is born with. One is born gay the same way one is born with whatever skin color they have.

  So while I don't take offence at the WTS using a video to further their doctrine, I do understand that it is propaganda pure and simple...but to be expected from a religion like this.
• 
  5

  Finally watched the anti-gay WT video

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i avoided watching the wt video where the daughter/mother discuss 'leaving' gaydom behind in order to reach paradise for as long as i could, but finally gave in and watched it; just so i know exactly what it says and how it's presented, should it come up in conversation with jw family.. it wasn't as shocking as i expected, having read some of the angst filled posts here and on facebook (thanks to george takei).

  they're presenting their beliefs as supported by scripture from the bible.

  and if you're a true believer in that book, then you would find yourself having to at least give some thought to what is said.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  I avoided watching the WT video where the daughter/mother discuss 'leaving' gaydom behind in order to reach paradise for as long as I could, but finally gave in and watched it; just so I know exactly what it says and how it's presented, should it come up in conversation with JW family.

  It wasn't as shocking as I expected, having read some of the angst filled posts here and on Facebook (thanks to George Takei). They're presenting their beliefs as supported by scripture from the Bible. And if you're a true believer in that book, then you would find yourself having to at least give some thought to what is said.

  However - if you're beyond accepting early bronze age allegories, legends, and myths, as the actual Word and Law of God then you just shake your head at the ignorance and backwards thinking presented in the video. It's easy to pick apart, starting with the belief of Adam being the first created man, to the silly illustration of dropping that 'gay' bag in order to take the plane to paradise (that's the most propaganda part. You can't just drop what you were born with or as. It's still presented as that it's a choice, and a perverted one, therefore you're not allowed to share in the paradise God has reserved for heteros only). But try changing a true believer who accepts the Bible as final authority, and you're pretty much wasting your time.

  In the overall scheme of things, it doesn't really matter if it's a WT video, a Mormon one, or even from a local Baptist church. It's a fundamentalist belief, based on the Bible, and as long as there are conservative fundies who accept the Bible as the final say in how they think and believe, this thinking is going to trump any progressive, modern (no matter how factual they may be) ideals anyone else may have.

  But I am glad it was the WTS that got lambasted and lampooned over it. Hopefully it helps any fence sitters, or doubters, question a little harder.
• 
  38

  Anti-Gay Cartoon Still Making Rounds: George Takei weighs in

  by freemindfade in

  1. social
  2. current

  i also heard the video was being discussed on howard stern today.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Unless you live in Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi or Tennessee.

  and don't forget good ole 'we hate transgenders' North Carolina

  (disclaimer: not everyone in NC is agreement with HB2, but the politicians are playing to the conservative fundamentalists that vote them in, even to the point of fighting the federal government. What was once the most progressive state of the old Confederacy, now, thanks to the politicians in Raleigh, acts like they want to be seen as an independent state, free of federal influence or oversight. It's 1860 all over again, this time over LGBT rights instead of slavery)

  This WTS video seems like it will play well with older conservatives and fundies, but to younger, more progressive folks, it's a shameful video. That's why George Takai linked to it, expressing concern.
• 
  38

  Anti-Gay Cartoon Still Making Rounds: George Takei weighs in

  by freemindfade in

  1. social
  2. current

  i also heard the video was being discussed on howard stern today.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Unless you live in Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi or Tennessee.

  and don't forget good ole 'we hate transgenders' North Carolina

  (disclaimer: not everyone in NC is agreement with HB2, but the politicians are playing to the conservative fundamentalists that vote them in, even to the point of fighting the federal government. What was once the most progressive state of the old Confederacy, now, thanks to the politicians in Raleigh, acts like they want to be seen as an independent state, free of federal influence or oversight. It's 1860 all over again, this time over LGBT rights instead of slavery)

  This WTS video seems like it will play well with older conservatives and fundies, but to younger, more progressive folks, it's a shameful video. That's why George Takai linked to it, expressing concern.
• 
  150

  I'm getting baptized

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

  my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

  i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Don't know much about you, especially your age. But I would advise against it if at all possible.

  If you're not baptized then you can never be DFd later. May not seem like a big deal to someone who knows TATT, and vows to leave later anyway, but to your parents it might be the difference between them accepting you as a someone who drifted away, always hoping for a return, as opposed to someone who rebelled and was DFd. You can keep some semblance of family interaction, even if it's overshadowed by JWism.

  Again, you might not care now, seeing your parents as the enemy, but believe me, when you're older, even if you're not in agreement about core beliefs, you may very well regret shutting that door.

  Maybe you can tell them you need more time to really be sure you're fit to serve at your best, and right now you feel too immature. I mean, Jesus was 30, right?
• 
  38

  Anti-Gay Cartoon Still Making Rounds: George Takei weighs in

  by freemindfade in

  1. social
  2. current

  i also heard the video was being discussed on howard stern today.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  I'm for anything that embarrasses JWs in front of the general population.

  I sense that many JWs are not homophobic, or as anti-gay as the WTS leaders would have them be. They're more of a 'live and let live' type of people - when left to their own devices and not repeating the WT mantra of 'oh woe is the world'. Especially the younger generation. If the WTS comes off like Westboro Lite, it might help some who are starting to get inklings that not all is right with JW beliefs dig a little deeper.
• 
  171

  RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

  now, on with the leaks & releases!

  first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  This is literally The Walking Dead. They're walking and talking, but might as well as be dead. They have no life whatsoever. Sell your stuff, live in a hovel, read the Bible, go to WT school. Hell, the walkers on the TV show have more life in them than that.

  At least Rick, Daryl, Carol and those guys have some personality, and make their show interesting to watch to a degree. And they have weapons. These video dubs are worse than the Hill Top community, growing veggies for Negan, but no weapons. These guys hide in a basement and reminisce about when they didn't have stuff. And now they're worried? What's to worry? When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose (with apologies to Mr. Dylan)
• 
  63

  New Spiritually Weak Label: Not Using Tablet/iPhone

  by Doubtfully Yours in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with last night's meeting it became official: here in the states is a must to keep up with 'jehovah's org' that one fully jumps on board with this tablet/iphone crap.. so, now, all of us that up to this point have refused to follow the wtbts in their electronic/wireless revolution will deal with the browbeating from the 'spiritual' ones.. already receiving lots of grief from hubby and rest of the family/close friends when seen at the meetings with paper publications.

  damn it!!!

  am i alone in this resistance???!!!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Haven't been to a meeting in years, but watching some older family members who are zealous, active members, I assume that the pressure to conform to this technological marvel must be somewhat heavy. I've seen them purchase tablets and iPads because they were told it was the way to keep up with Jehovah's chariot (imagine, using 21st century technology to keep up with technology that pre-dates Christ by 2000 years), yet they don't own mobile phones, or have cable TV, or use a personal computer. They have no clue how to use the thing, are constantly having to get someone to show them how to download an app, update an app, find the Internet, find a website, find a file. It would be comical if it weren't so sad.
• 
  20

  Defend Jehovah's Witnesses.. False claim from opposers of JW's--Creative Day..

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "the creative day" how long was each day?

  defend.

  maybe this was posted before but i found this site.. search the above site.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  "but only recently did Jehovah start the creation process on the Earth,"
  Not so. That each creative day was millions of years old, is said in talks and taught. A common phrase would be something like that science tells us the Earth is billions of years old, plants many many millions if years old etc. - and that does not contradict the Bible.

  Official WT statement on length of creative days: (notice they say 'thousands', not 'millions')

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201401/creation/
  

  God created the universe, including the earth, in the indefinite past—“in the beginning,” as Genesis 1:1 says. Modern science agrees that the universe had a beginning. A recent scientific model suggests it to be almost 14 billion years old.

  The Bible also describes six “days” of creation. However, it does not say that these were 24-hour days. (Genesis 1:31) In fact, the Bible uses the word “day” to refer to various lengths of time. For example, it calls the entire period of creation “the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.” (Genesis 2:4) Evidently, these “days” of creation lasted many thousands of years.—Psalm 90:4.

  Granted, the WTS often says things in person at assemblies, KHs, etc that lead people one way, while the official doctrine goes the other, and this is one of those times. They so want to not be creationists, they have to twist the logic and doctrine so much, that they end up contradicting themselves, and the Bible

  Official WT statement on universe and earth existing before creation process as described in Genesis:

  https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/creationism-belief/#?insight[search_id]=06097ccc-99f4-4323-bfd5-221cc7cabbd6&insight[search_result_index]=1

  Age of the earth. Some creationists teach that the earth is just a few thousand years old. However, according to the Bible, the earth and the universe existed before the six days of creation. (Genesis 1:1) For that reason, Jehovah’s Witnesses have no objection to credible scientific research that indicates the earth may be billions of years old.

  And while that sounds more reasonable than your average run of the mill creationist, it doesn't agree with the Bible, you know, that book that is the end all be all to WT doctrine..

  Exodus 20:11

  For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
  
• 
  22

  WT's expert on blood!

  by Joyzabel in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  the january 8, 2000 awake magazine published an article "the growing demand for bloodless medicine and surgery".

  this article has been quoted extensively by jws as support for their "scientific" justification for refusing blood products.. a quote from that article that is familiar to most jws and exjws is this one:.

  “all those dealing with blood and caring for surgical patients have to consider bloodless surgery.”—dr.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Marking, so i can find this later

  Thanks for the thread