undercover

Joined

• started 302 topics
• posted 13,482 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by undercover

• 
  5

  JWs in Russia. This short article from TASS is very interesting. "Everything You Need To Know About JWs"

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  remember tass is traditionally pretty much a spokesman for the government.

  http://tass.com/world/939582.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  There's enough factual information wrong about that article that any JWs reading it would immediately declare it as inspired by Satan, therefore 'fake news'.

  But some of the information is factual, and quite damning. And that's why they're now banned.

  I don't like banning any religion. It's wrong based on human rights. But one has to admit that the WTS didn't help itself with their blood doctrine, shunning, and badly handled child abuse cases.

  And I hate how it's going to give JWs in 'free' lands more persecution complexes, and scare fringe members back to the fold.
• 
  47

  Serena Williams Pregnant

  by wisdomfrombelow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now that she has announced that she is 20 weeks pregnant and not married, what is her status in the cult?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  First of all, she's not a baptized JW, so there's nothing they can do to her.

  Second, she's a celebrity. There are several sets of standards when it comes to living in the JW world. Celebrity status gives you more freedom in your dress, grooming, associates, and behavior. Just ask Michael Jackson and Prince. oh wait... nevermind
• 
  51

  Bearded students on Ministry school?

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so at last nights ministry school we had 2...yes that's right two that had parts and gave them with beards.. i found it interesting.

  i thought the consensus was that you couldn't have any extra privileges if you wore one.. maybe the school is different?.

  anyway, anybody else seen this in the u.s.?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  ...some other congregations were letting men with beards read the watchtower on stage. What a revolution this was! He was hopeful that it would migrate to his congregation so he could have a beard.

  
  

  You may be in a cult, if you hope you will be allowed to grow a beard one day...
  
  
• 
  32

  At This Point In Time How Would You Feel If You Were Disfellowshipped?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  before my mother's death, it would have impacted me.

  now , i wouldn't care..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  I'm with Blondie...

  I miss the 'red dot'.

  But as far as being DFd, I don't care. I don't bring attention to myself, and I've been gone so long, they really don't pay me any mind. I guess the only way I could be DFd if were someone were to take too much interest in trying to get me to return, and I made it clear that I was an apostate thinker, no longer believing. Even then, I'm not sure they'd go to the trouble.
• 
  115

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  by aboveusonlysky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

  has such a thing been tried before?.

  https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  We all shun. We just do it for personal reasons. You don't like someone, you avoid them. Someone wronged you, or lied about you, you avoid them. It's a choice we make, based on our experiences with that person.

  The WTS takes this to a group level. You're in the club, but break the rules. Now you're no longer in the club. The other club members are told you're out, and they collectively shun you. True, it's not based on personal interaction with you, it's based on obedience to the leadership, and compliance with the collective, but break it all the way down, there's nothing you can do about it. Like so many said already, you can't make someone talk to you, or accept you. By not adhering to their rules and traditions, you put yourself in a position of possibly being shunned.

  The terrible part of a religious group who practices shunning is how they coerce family members to shun their own family. It is a terrible thing, but even in the 'real' world there are people who have had to disown family members for various reasons. That was a personal decision, based on experiences and facts of dealing with that person. In the JW world, that decision is based on compliance with the WT leadership. No petitions, or laws, are going to change that.
• 
  38

  Even if it's not the truth, it's still the best way to live

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how many times did you hear that gem?

  it often went along with "the truth is a protection" which is their way of saying "living a moral life is good for you ... and you can't do that without us".. but think about what people are really saying.

  i think the real message is "i know it's not the truth, but i chose to follow it anyway".. it seems like a pre-emptive argument because they know they can't defend it as "the truth" so instead they switch to defending it as a lifestyle.. of course any kind of lifestyle that has a decent moral ingredient to it, respect for law and order, discipline etc... probably increases people's chances of doing better in life, but they don't have a monopoly on it.. so just remember, next time you hear someone saying "even if it's not the truth" what they are really admitting is that they already know it isn't..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away... when I was still a young padawan, not yet experienced in the ways of the Jedi, an elder was calling on me, trying to encourage me back to the dark side (KH meetings). I laid out my defense...everything from 607 vs 587 to the beard prohibition not being non supported by scripture.

  He was patient, and actually listened. I think I made him squirm on a couple of issues. Finally, I asked him what he would do if learned one day that a WT prediction failed, or that a major doctrine changed. Would he sit up, take notice, and contemplate a change? His answer - No. See, he was a trouble youth before he found the JWs. Gang violence, drugs, theft. But when he started studying, he saw he needed to change. And change he did. He went full bore into JWism. By the time I knew him, he was a family man, with kids and one of the showcase elders in the circuit. Actually, he is a good man, one of the good guy elders. I liked him. Still do. But since this religion had saved him from a life of drugs and crime, he was now in debt to them for them saving his life. He felt even if something was amiss with the WTS, he still owed them. There was no point in going further with our discussions. I wasn't going to change. He wasn't going to change.
• 
  51

  To those taking a stand and not attending the Memorial tonight

  by doubtfull1799 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i salute you.

  many of you, like me, are probably under enormous emotional pressure, whether from a lingering false sense of guilt from your indoctrination, whether from "invitations," and assumptions that you'll naturally be coming, or whether from outright emotional blackmail, even begging and pleading.

  i am thinking of you whoever you are, all of you, even though i don't know you in person.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  "Taking a stand"?
  So much DRAMA!
  This isn't the frikkin' Great Tribulation! It's not imaginary Armageddon!
  It's NOTHING! That's ALL IT IS!
  Get a grip... breathe... relax
  You'll feel fine in the morning.

  It is a lot of drama. And yea, it's just Tuesday, we'll all be fine in the morning. I get where you're coming from, it's not life threatening, or the end times. Just another JW meeting.

  Personally, I don't have a real problem not going or going. Some years, I've skated by with nary an invite. Other years, the pressure was heavier. In those years, I give in and go. It's one hour a year, I think I can handle that. It's the only meeting I've been to in ten years if not more. (not counting JW weddings/funerals). I'm so removed from it, that it doesn't bother me to go. It's like going to some other church service. Don't believe it. Don't buy into it. It doesn't affect me.

  But for some, the drama is real. The pressure from family so intense. Marriages can break up. Young people get kicked out of their parents home. These things happen when they 'take a stand' and say in effect, 'I don't believe this anymore. I'm not going' That does take some courage.
• 
  26

  My Anointed Grandma’s Wavering Faith?

  by My Name is of No Consequence in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  some quick background information: my dad (her firstborn son) died unexpectedly this past october.

  his death has really hit our family hard.

  personally, i have not totally come to terms with this.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  The organization values its members by their productivity. People under 15 and over 80 are poor producers, and so are marginalized.
  The intuitive among JWs pick up on this, and the reaction is often the same as your grandma's.

  I wish my parents and in-laws would pick up on this. Mid/late 70s and they're as hard-core a JW as you'll ever find. Nothing makes a dent with these people. And the guilt trips they can lay... it would make a Jewish grandmother blush. I've become teflon to their shenanigans, but not so others in my immediate family. They are susceptible to the guilt and fear laid on them

  But OTOH, I do worry about older ones who have known nothing but a life of JWism. Should they wake up one day late in life, what would that do to their psyche? To realize you spent 70-80 years in this, only to be wrong.
• 
  70

  Apologists saying that the JWs shouldn't be banned, what the hell!??

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think russia should ban them.

  i would just like to remind all of you that jws are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned because if they leave they loose family, financial support, possible employment etc.. sure their not strapping bombs to their chests but they easily get members to kill themselves with their blood policies.

  they are an extremist group!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  JWs are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned

  You're confusing the followers with the leadership. True, many followers adhere to rules so closely that it has lead to bad situations, but it's not the rank and file that should be punished by banning. It's the leadership that should be held accountable for their policies and rules. And banning the religion as a whole will not be adequate. Instead, as many have already pointed out, it's better to put other restrictions on them. Don't allow them to own property. Levy taxes. Punish those in authority in cover ups of child abuse cases.

  But leaving all that aside, whether it's JWs, Mormons, Worldwide Church of God, and yes, even Scientology, people should be allowed to choose the religion of their choice. It's a human rights issue, not a JW issue. Ban one religion, then others are sure to follow.

  We're in a particular situation because we've been JWs, been on the inside, seen how it works. And we know it's all BS, and that some of their policies are harmful, maybe even deadly on occasion. Remove that intimacy with the religion from the equation, and it becomes a human rights issue that should concern all freedom loving people.
• 
  39

  July's watchtower leaves out some important info from a quote!

  by stavro in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jerome over on discuss the truth has picked up on something interesting.. in the july watchtower on page 28 of the article entitled “winning the battle for your mind” the following statement is made “keep in mind that satan does not want you to think clearly or reason things out well.

  because propaganda is likely to be most effective, says one source, if people… are discouraged from thinking critically.”.

  the quote comes from a book entitled: “media and society in the twentieth century: a historical introduction by lyn gorman, david mclean" the watchtower however, chose to leave out a portion of the quote.. the full quote is "therefore, it is likely to be most effective if people do not have access to multiple sources of information and if they are discouraged from thinking critically.. the following sentence which the watchtower also decided was best not to include states,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Marking, to find later

  Thanks for the reference