Posts by undercover

17

Are JW's supposed to do this???

by neverthere in

there was a group of jw ladies handing out the publications on the street the other day.

although i have never been a jw i have had contact through my first husband's family.

what i want to know is this: are they supposed to hand these publications to children?

undercover

Getting angry doesn't help. They just think that they have provoked Satan's anger, making Jehovah rejoice. Actually, they feel more justified in their work when they get an angry reaction. They feel that they have made you feel guilty or shameful in front of God. Tearing up stuff does the same thing.

The best way to handle them is the same as any telemarketer or door to door salesman: apathy. You don't care, you don't need it and you don't want it. End of discussion. Goodbye.

Apathy discourages more JWs in field service than any other reaction.

In the case where they may have already handed it to your child, just return it to them, and calmly say you're not interested in their religion and you don't care to have your children accosted by strangers.

Calm, cool and collected. You show your complete satisfaction in life and further chip away at their shield denying that they are miserable in the field service.

207

Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

undercover

The fact that so many do leave shows that their free will is still functioning. There is not total mind control.

But at the same time, why does it take so long for many to leave? Why didn't I see through the decpetions 20 years ago? Why didn't I see the hypocrisy? Why didn't I question the organization the same as I question anything else? How did I remain fooled? I don't care to blame anyone about the past. I'm willing to let it go. But something more than my laziness to research the WTS kept me in for so long.

While I was not in a total mind control where they can suggest anything and I do it, there was some kind of control to influence me and keep me from using my independant thinking ability. I look at the actions and thinking of my family(still in) and I see them do and say things, influenced by the WTS teachings, that actually go against their personalities and how they think in all other aspects of life.

I'm not a pschycologist(not even sure I spelled it right), I have no college degrees, but from my own experience and from observations of life, I believe that some form of mind control is in use, whether planned or coincidental, by the WTS.

As I said before, both sides have valid points, and I appreciate all the comments. It makes me think more instead of having a knee-jerk reaction. Thanks for making my brain have to do some work.

27

"We don't make rules!", claims the WTS

by ozziepost in

out of their own mouths (well, web-site actually): .

jehovah's witnesses avoid making rules and regulations beyond those provided in the scriptures, and they do not follow traditions that contradict bible teachings.

emphasis is placed on personal application of bible principles and the value of a sound, bible-based conscience.matthew 15:9; 2 corinthians 1:24.. just thought you'd like to know!

undercover

can you think of ANY rules they make that are not scriptural?

Brothers can't wear beards.

Have to go out in field service.

Have to turn in service time.

R-rated movies are not allowed.

Rap & Heavy Metal music not allowed.

Vasectomys, tubes tied not allowed.

Independant thinking not allowed.

Smoking not allowed.

Birthday celebration not allowed.

15

www.e-watchman.org : WACKO

by Hamas in

jw
friends

.

sorted..

undercover

Sordid?

32

Our own personal growth and leaving

by Mr Lebowski in

jw
friends

first, the tee-up: many on this board are former jws.

former jws fall into two categories:.

1) those who consciously chose out, perhaps as an intellectual position, perhaps as an emotional reaction to some event, maybe while in the throes of some existential crisis.. 2) those who blew it, and got busted for (cue music) breakin the law, breakin' the law, breakin' the law.

undercover

what need were you filling while you were in the Witness Protection Program?

Acceptance. To be accepted as a true worshipper of God. I was told that this was the only way. So I wanted to make sure that I stayed true to the course. But, no matter how hard I tried, something never felt right though. Over time, doubts crept up. Doubts that could not be overcome. Research led to another kind of acceptance. Acceptance of the fact that JWs were wrong.

46

Can "Born-Into-Its" Ever Be Happy?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

just wondering....take a 40 year old male ('cos he's an ex-elder!

) who's been born a dub.

he becomes disenchanted with dubdom and eventually decides to leave.

undercover

Social situations were especially difficult for me.

I can relate to that. After growing up and being taught that all non JWs are evil and social contact with them is to be avoided, I never learned any social graces. How to mingle in a party, how to carry on a conversation at a dinner table. These things were down right scary. Being a quiet, reserved type person made it much worse. But now that I have loosened up, and forced myself into social interaction, I actually enjoy parties, bars and other large gatherings.

I don't think it's possible to 'catch up for lost time' or make up for things that you never did although it's easy to believe that you need to or somehow can. An easy mistake to make.

I think you can make up some of it. Not all of it, but enough so that you can at least enjoy life and not mope around and dwell on the regrets of your life. Just keep your smarts about you and don't go overboard on the party boat.

207

Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

undercover

Mind control is the shaping of a person's attitudes, beliefs, and personality without the person's knowledge or consent.

It's the last part that makes the debate interesting. The first part is a given. The second part is where it gets tricky. I have to ask, if certain technics are applied so that the person doesn't realize what is happening over time, would this not fit in the description? You're not forcing someone to do something, but over time, you shape their attitude, etc. Now you don't have to force them to follow your dictates, they actually want to.

Mind control employs deceptive and surreptitious manipulation, usually in a group setting, for the financial or political profit of the manipulator.

The WTS is deceptive, we can all agree on that, can't we? They use a group setting, in fact, independance is frowned upon. I guess we can debate what profit or gain is realized by the "manipulator" but it looks to me that money is the motivator.

Mind control works by gradually exerting increasing control over individuals through a variety techniques, such as excessive repetition of routine activities, intense humiliation, or sleep deprivation.

Exerting increasing pressure. Ask anyone who was a JW and they will tell that the pressure to do more, give more is a constant reminder at all meetings and in the publications. Repitition for emphasis. That's a key phrase in the Ministry School. Constant rehashing of the ideals and beliefs of the group is the norm. Intense humilation. Intense may be a strong word, but ask anyone disfellowshipped how they felt. Ask any JW about how they would feel to be disfellowshipped. Sleep deprivation. This is a stretch, but I've heard others mention this, so maybe I'm not so far off: The WTS keeps its members so busy with the meetings, service, assemblies, etc, that they don't have time to sit back, comptemplate, or question anything. It may not be sleep deprivation, but it is a deprivation of time. All my life as a JW, I've heard how "we are a busy people" How many JWs talk about how hard it is to keep the schedule as outlined by the WTS. How many actually live up to it?

I think the raising of kids as JW's (as GaryB referred to earlier) is an interesting topic, and one that probably merits another thread.

Actually this makes a big difference on this thread regarding the knowledge/consent area. I was raised "in the truth". My attitude, beliefs and personality was shaped to accept that being a JW was the only way to God. Was this without my knowledge or consent? Technically yes. I was too young to make any other kind of decision. You can argue that about any religion or lifestyle I suppose but it does present something to think about.

PS Thanks for the commendation, Minimus.

28

Top 100 Banned Books 1990 - 2000

by closer2fine in

jw
friends

.

how many have you read?

- you deviants you..

undercover

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
Harry Potter (Series) by J.K. Rowling
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
Sex by Madonna
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton
American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut

Only nine. Wow. I'm behind on my reading.

Has no one else read "American Psycho"? That's a must read.

46

Can "Born-Into-Its" Ever Be Happy?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

just wondering....take a 40 year old male ('cos he's an ex-elder!

) who's been born a dub.

he becomes disenchanted with dubdom and eventually decides to leave.

undercover

born-ins have a lot of catching up to do, i think, once they do make it out.

That is a true statement. I know, I've been there.

I fit E-man's description(cept I wasn't an elder). But even at my age, I'm not an old fart yet. I am trying to make up for lost time. But the problem is not to get carried away. That new found freedom may be fun and exciting, but it can get you into trouble. I've come close a couple of times. I have learned that I can have fun and do things that I missed out on, but moderation and responsiblity is the key. Most people my age learned that a long time ago. But I'm 20 years behind so I think I've learned fairly quickly how to party, have fun, but not to overdo it.

28

KM article (barf alert)

by Euphemism in

jw
friends

just had to share some lovely points from this week's service meeting.

the article "imitate jehovah's goodness" has the following paragraph:toward unbelievers: one way we can imitate jehovah's goodness is by showing sincere concern for those not related to us in the faith.

(gal 6:10) showing goodness in practical ways can have a positive effect on how they view jehovah's witnesses and the message we bear.. .

undercover

It has been noted that some delegates have refused to cooperate with the attendants, even speaking to them in an unchristian manner.

Guilty. The last DC I went to was in a city that I was very familiar with. I had to park in the overflow parking lot. Having lived there at one point, I knew these parking lots very well and I knew all the entrances and exits. After the session, as I was trying to drive out of the lot, two parking attendants(who looked hardly old enough to drive, let alone tell me how to) flagged me down and told me I was going the wrong way. I informed them politely that there was an exit right up ahead. They told me that they were instructed to send everone to the other end of the lot. I let them know that that would put me on the wrong side of the block going in the opposite direction of where I wanted to go. They then said that my exit was blocked and I would'nt be able to exit anyway. I said, "If it's blocked, I'll come back. You wait here and see." Needless to say, I didn't have to turn around.

Another thought that I had when reading that comment from the WTS is, if they used common sense in the matters of parking and crowd control, etc. then you wouldn't have people refusing to cooperate. Parking at conventions is the most messed up parking I have ever had to deal with. Sports events, fairs, concerts, etc, have all flowed better than any convention that I have been to. The last three conventions that I attended, they closed all the entrances except for one, forcing everyone to line up on the street, causing traffic jams for the locals(that endears JWs to them even more) and funnel in through one entrance. If your not paying for parking, why not open all the entrances and have several ways in? Same for exiting. They only allowed a couple of exits open, causing everyone to fight for position to get out of the lot. Just open all of em and the parking lot will empty in no time. Maybe the city has something to do with it, but I've never had that problem at the same venue for sporting events or concerts.