Posts by undercover

46

Preaching Slowdown

by cornish in

.

i can remember numerous talks and study articles about how the preaching work would get more and more intense as we near the end.. one so called prophetic illustration that stands out in my mind was when joshua and his men marched around the city each day and then just before the city fell they marched seven times signifying a quickening of the preaching work.. it seems starkingly obvious that the preaching,is in decline amonst jw's,the jw's are seen less and less often in my neighbourhood,it is very rare to see them out street witnesing around the town centres and railway stations,the average jw spends far less time preaching than a decade ago.. it seems like their chief brag is definately on the wain,in favour of other recruitment methods.

undercover

Joker 10, the JWs have started a new program called the "doorstep study." They call on people and talk to them for 5 minutes on their doorstep, then all they have to do is call back 2 more times and talk to them for about 5 minutes and they can report it as a bible study.
However Bible studies have gone way up.
Also, you can factor 9-11 into that as well as the WTS educating the R&F how to more accurately report studies.

Don't forget that you can count the family study with unbaptized children as a bible study. That adds up too.

the JWs have started a new program called the "doorstep study." They call on people and talk to them for 5 minutes on their doorstep, then all they have to do is call back 2 more times and talk to them for about 5 minutes and they can report it as a bible study.
Blondie, PLEASE tell me you are just joking!

Nope. I read or heard that too.

14

How Do You Feel About Watchtower Enablers???

by minimus in

jw
friends

enabling has been defined as "taking responsibility for the destructive behavior of other people so that they do not have to deal with the consequences of their own.

it is also enabling to pretend that the destructive behavior is not occurring.

such enablers often deny and minimize.

undercover

So you're saying that I'm an "enabler" if I don't tell all my relatives and friends what I have learned about the WTS and it not being the one true religion? I am "enabling" these people to continue on a course of false security and false hope when I know better?

Isn't this the same argument that the WTS uses on the friends to keep them busy in the field service? It is the duty of a JW to go door to door and let them know that this system is ending and people must make a stand for the true God. If the JW does not do this then he is bloodguilty.

Sorry. I'm busy taking care of myself these days. I don't have time to start a new ministry. I'm glad just to be out of the old one.

136

...but I happen to like the JWs/WT.....

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses.

the organisation.

i love 'em both still.

undercover

Ya know, sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do.

Everyone's situation is different. It is not anyone's place here to tell anyone else what to do. Just as we resent having a corporation tell us how to live, we should not presume to know so much about someone else's circumstances and tell them what to do. Our perspective is fine, our opinion is fine, but it should stop there and we should not judge harshly because they chose a different path from what we believe is right.

Some here openly admit they are apostate and DA themselves for all to know. Others lay low, try to fade away, but know in their heart that it is not "the truth". Neither one is the right thing nor the wrong thing to do. Others have other different tactics they wish to use. I wish them all the best in their quest for happiness and freedom.

I don't dislike too many of the friends that I have known over the years. In fact most of them are fine people. Even as an inactive one, I have managed to keep some relationships going. I feel sorry for most of the dubs however. They have been lied to and deceived. There are a few(elders mostly) that are on a power trip and I have little respect for how they handle their responsibilities but the average dub is to be pitied not hated. In my opinion.

Edited to say: So what even if he decides to go back? It's his life. I may not understand or agree, but I won't shun or hate because someone decided that they were happy there and wanted to go back. My opinion is they are making a mistake, but do what you gotta do.

26

Have The Elders Ever Told You They Needed To Speak 2 You After The Meeting?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i wonder how many times an elder approached you before the meeting to say, "after the meeting, we would like to talk to you about something".

you know that feeling-----remember???

the entire meeting you tried not to think about whatever it was they needed to talk to you about.

undercover

I was in trouble.
Someone else was in trouble and I had to rat on them.
Someone else was spreading rumours about me.
I was up for additional privileges.

Yup. All of the above that someone else listed.

I usually thought up all kinds of weird things that could happen and wondered if they find out about something really serious. Usually it was something small, but the ones that burnt me up the most were the ones were somebody was spreading rumors. Ya got something to say, say it to me first, not the elders. Even if it was true, be an adult about it and face me with the insinuations or accusations. That $#!+ burnt me up.

Being up for additional privledges was usually before the meeting though. They would ask if there was anything that would hold me back from accepting the position of MS. I would lie and say no. And that same meeting it would be announced that I was appointed an MS.

26

How many of you had the jw double life?

by obiwan in

jw
friends

i was the prime example, if you looked in the dictionary under double life, my face would be right next to it!

i would party on saturday night, and drag my butt to the sunday meeting hungover.

does anyone here know how hard it is to answer a question during the wt study hungover?

undercover

I was somewhere in the middle of all these experiences. I tried to hide that I was a JW at school and had my share of worldly friends there, but I never got into smoking or drugs(just a little underage drinking). My parents never knew and the congregation was oblivious. I avoided other dub kids at school like the plague.

Later in life, being a reserved individual had it's benefits. Most at the hall considered me exemplary while only my closest friends(who were as bad or worse) knew how much fun I could really have. Unfortunately I led a pretty dull sexual life. There were a few intimate occasions but never a regular thing. Things heated up after marriage. What is it about a man being married that makes women more bold about hitting on them?

I guess if I had told on myself everytime I should have, there would have been several JC meetings on my behalf, but I knew better than to blab my secrets to anyone that could inform the elders.

Up until my big fade, I was considered a good example of a MS and regular publisher. What most didn't know, but I did, was that out of all the MS's that I knew, 95% were not meeting the standards of being an MS, let alone a publisher in good standing.

My observation has been that if someone seems to be a really good example to the congregation, their bad behavior just hasn't been found out yet.

19

We are NOT a CULT!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

the watchtower, september 15, 2002 issue, pages 16-18: .

the watchtower, january 1, 1942 issue, page 5: .

the watchtower, may 1, 1957 issue, page 274: .

undercover

Wish I had time to cut and paste actual WT quotes, but anyway:

Veneration of the Leader: Excessive glorification to the point of virtual sainthood or divinity.

WT leaders are Christ's brothers who receive information to disseminate to the others. The leaders are treated like saints on earth JWS.

Inerrancy of the Leader: Belief that he or she cannot be wrong.

The information from the leaders through the WT is to be treated as from God. God can't lie, thus the leaders can't be wrong.

Omniscience of the Leader: Acceptance of beliefs and pronouncements on virtually all subjects, from the philosophical to the trivial.

Same as above. If the leader says so, it has to be right and the members should conform.

Persuasive Techniques: Methods used to recruit new followers and reinforce current beliefs.

Bible study that is actually a study of a publication by the group using Bible texts to support their beliefs.

Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything about the leader and the group's inner circle, particularly flaws or potentially embarrassing events or circumstances.

This could go on and on, but a few: UN, 607 vs 587, 1914, generation, Rutherfords takeover, pyramidology, etc, etc, etc.

Financial and/or Sexual Exploitation: Recruits and followers are persuaded to invest in the group, and the leader may develop sexual relations with one or more of the followers.

Invest is not the word used, but persuading followers to give for furthering the kingdom work. Real estate scams.

Absolute Truth: Belief that the leader and/or group has a method of discovering final knowledge on any number of subjects.

See numbers one and two.

Absolute Morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group have developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code may become and remain members, those who do not are dismissed or punished.

Do or Don't do what the leaders say or be disfellowshipped, shunned by all other members, including family.

Fits the definition pretty close, I'd say.

207

Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

undercover

If the proof of mind control is a Witness saying they go to meetings because they are afraid of dying at armageddon, to me, that's no different than a Catholic person saying they go to Mass because they are afraid of going to hell when they die. It's just religious superstition, not hypnosis.

It's neither superstition or hypnosis. It's a guilt trip. Make em feel guilty and keep em giving money(time, effort, whatever). How does one make them feel guilty? Constant pressure to conform to the standards set in place, constant reminders of rules(beliefs, doctrine, etc.), constant threats of discipline for wrongdoing. Not much different than how our mothers put the guilt trip on us. Our mothers tried to control us and then our religion tried to control us. In some of our cases it was the same pressure from two sides.

207

Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

undercover

This thread is a mini cult. It has it's own leader, it's doctrine, it's system or rewards and punishments. Disagreement with the leader is discouraged.

The Cult of Minimus! LOL Point taken, but Minimus has no real control

207

Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

undercover

To me, the mind control line is just an excuse, like the devil made me do it. I don't buy it. GaryB

At the same time, you could say that you don't believe in mind control because you don't want to admit that someone else controlled you.

Makes for interesting debate if nothing else, huh?

207

Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control

by minimus in

jw
friends

if you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".

it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.

how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?

undercover

it's a pretty shoddy sort of 'mind control.'

Yea, it's not a perfect or a total mind control. That's why so many are leaving.

Maybe that's why it isn't a planned thing. In their effort to be God('s spokemen), they have used certain procedures or whatever to "teach" and it has a controlling effect.

Then on the other hand, maybe it is planned. Maybe they only want the weakest minded people. Easier to control. The stronger minded ones eventually figure it out, leave, get DF'd or DA'd and are shunned thus keeping them from spilling the beans to the others.