Posts by undercover

32

Watchtower Study for 3-21-2004

by dustyb in

if you still go to meetings, has anyone read the watchtower for this sunday's study?

its really really messed up, and they're still trying to justify 1914 and 607 and stuff.

i was reading that sunday before the study w/ the elder, and so i just told him that i didn't think jerusalem fell in 607. showed him a few things, then now both of us are researching it.. personal opinion of this weeks' watchtower is that its more of a crock of shit than it has been for awhile.

undercover

What's f**ked up about that 1973 quote is that they admit that it was in 1943 that they changed their thinking of Jesus returning in 1874 to 1914. But in newer publications they keep harping on how the early Bible Students pointed to 1914 as the return of Jesus, not the date of Armageddon.

A short history of beliefs of the WTS:

Jesus returns in 1874. Jesus returns in 1914.

Armageddon comes in 1914. Armageddon comes in 1918. Armageddon comes in 1925. Armageddon comes in 1975. No man knows the day or hour.

King of the North is the Soviet Union. King of the North is ???

Generation is those who were alive in 1914. Generation is people who were alive anytime after 1914.

Jerusalem was destroyed in 606BCE. Jerusalem was destroyed in 607BCE.

You'd think that God's earthly organization would have a litte better handle on things, especially since God's spirit is directing it.

34

If you considered going back to the hall....

by JH in

jw
friends

if you considered going back to the hall after posting here for a while, would you hesistate telling us?

undercover

I'm gonna assume that the original question meant "going back" as in re-joining the religion. But....

My first reaction was, "What's the big deal whether someone goes to the hall or not?"

If you have gained independance from the WTS and know it to be false, if you're not afraid of them, going to the hall on a rare occasion should not be any big deal. Those who have faded away may have to, from time to time, go to a hall when visiting family or may go to the memorial just to keep the dogs at bay. Everyone's situation is different. If someone can walk away and never go back and not lose family, that's great. But many have so much family in, that from time to time an occasional trip to the hall is necessary. It doesn't mean they are returning to the religion. It's no different than visiting family that is Catholic or Presbyterian and attending church with them. It doesn't mean you're going to join their faith. It's just good manners.

149

Yes or No----Do You Believe That JWs Are A Cult?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe they are "cultlike" but i don't think they are a "cult"........and you?

undercover

I saw The Cult in concert a couple of times. There weren't too many JWs there.

114

So, Do You Think You're Pretty Good Looking?

by minimus in

jw
friends

how would you rate yourself?

undercover

I don't make much of a first impression but I grow on people.

Kinda like a wart? Sorry. I just had to do it.

149

Yes or No----Do You Believe That JWs Are A Cult?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe they are "cultlike" but i don't think they are a "cult"........and you?

undercover

Are you positive in your opinion, Stilla? LOL

I used to say no, but I'm leaning toward yes more and more. I don't like the word cult, because in the strictest sense all religions are cults, but in the mind-contorl sense, the WTS does seem to fall into that category. The fact that we can't just walk away without fear of losing family or being ostracised shows that JW's minds are set(controlled) against another JW that dares to try to leave and be independant of their control.

114

So, Do You Think You're Pretty Good Looking?

by minimus in

jw
friends

how would you rate yourself?

undercover

I'd rather have you on my arm, Imallgrowedup, instead of minimus, that's for sure.

Sadly my best days are behind me. Small children don't run away screaming, but gorgeous girls don't come running toward me to meet me either. My wife thinks I'm good-looking so that's all that really matters, but once in a while, I can still catch a pretty girl's eye in a bar or club. I rate myself average.

5

Congregation is building a new KH

by dustyb in

jw
friends

up front at the weekly tcs meeting they are commenting about how much money they've rose for the new kingdom hall.

but i was thinking about how they get all the money, and if i understand it correctly, they raise money and sell the old kh property and give all that money back to the society.

then from there, the society gives out a loan w/ like a 3% interest rate, and on top of that, takes the title to the kh and puts the kh in their names.

undercover

When a congregation borrows money from the WTS, it's borrowing from the building fund. Where did the building fund come from? Donations by the friends the world over. So basically you're borrowing money given to the WTS. You could also say that you're borrowing some of your own money back.

The WTS loans that money at 3% interest to allow the purchase of land, building materials, etc. (The money made from the sale of an old hall goes to this also).

The brothers give free labor, skill and use of tools to erect the building.

After construction the hall is dedicated which means given back to the WTS. Local elders are used to hold the deeds, but the WTS actually owns the property, building and attachments.

So you're borrowing, at interest, to build a building to give back to the lender and still owe them a mortgate payment along with paying all costs of repairs and upkeep.

Nice little real estate scam, huh?

33

What's The Dumbest Thing Anyone Has Ever Told You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

undercover

In retrospect I guess it would have to be that I was never going to die.

16

Need help to blow-off the elders

by Roddy in

jw
friends

i guess i've been away too long, the local circuit overseer is coming, or the local circuit overseer has come by already and got on the elders' backs.

i got word from a relative that the elders would like to meet with me for a shepherding call.

i guess to 'help' me go back to the meetings.. i need adivce on how to blow them off for the year.

undercover

I think a lot of how you act or respond to attempts by the elders to "help" you depends on how the elders involved act and react.

I've had several "sheparding" calls. The first couple of visits, I did as Hyghlandyr did, I didn't bring up questions or concerns, I just begged off by saying I needed to take a break. But the last two visits, I came right out and asked about some of the doctrinal beliefs that can't be supported by the Bible and a couple of other issues that bothered me. I was careful to not admit using the Internet in my discovery of questionable things about the WTS, but I didn't hide my doubts or questions. I layed it out for them to respond to. These particular elders, being friends (or former friends) basically backed away and left me alone. I had figured they would. I knew that if I didn't come right out and admit to being "apostate" they would back off. They couldn't answer my questions and being under the control of the WTS they were not going to question things like I had done. They would ignore it and hope to not have to worry about it. There are other elders though, that I know would have pushed the issue and caused problems. Those elders I would not have discussed anything with. I didn't trust them, nor much liked them, so I wasn't going to open up to them with any "problems" that I might have.

You'll have to use some gut instinct on how you think they may react. Even if you're up front with them, don't overplay your hand. Keep it on your terms and don't give them anything with which to hang you with later.

41

Thou shalt not stayeth at the Day's Inn

by RunningMan in

jw
friends

and god spake unto his people, ?thou shalt not stayeth at the days inn?.

what, you ask, am i talking about?

well, last week at my mother in law?s meeting, a letter was read, which was subsequently relayed to us (and any other heathens who might have transgressed the list of holy hotels).

undercover

I remember when cell phones first started gaining in popularity. As soon as the meeting was over, we'd rush outside and make our call to the hotels from our car, just to make sure we got the hotel we wanted. After a few years, I realized what an idiot I was and I started booking my room at my fav hotel as soon as I found out the date from somebody else before it was announced at the meeting. Damn the list, I liked a certain hotel and I was going to stay there, list or no list.