Posts by undercover

98

The world cup

by Laika in

4 weeks of football and wimbledon tennis in between!?

life is beautiful.. aaahhhh!

i'm so excited!.

undercover

The World Cup: A sport where you play a 3 game season, win only one third of your games and still make the playoffs.

24

June 1st Watchtower for the public

by Lynnie in

one of my smart ass friends gave me the public copy of the watchtower for june 1st, 2014 and the main article.

is about "god's view on smoking.

" okay it goes on and on about how we need to keep our body "clean" and.

undercover

So did this June 1st 2014 WT article discuss the original reasons why smoking was forbidden for true Christians? That reason being spiritism, of course...

30

New DVD review

by Laika in

i managed to catch the new dvd on youtube last night before the inevitable takedown.

as a film i felt it wasn't anywhere near as good as the prodigal movie, the story wasn't as dramatic, the characters much less interesting and developed and the direction weaker.

i found the prodigal relatively entertaining (all things considered) this one was just dull.. here are some of my random thoughts anyway [spoiler alert - ha!].

Well, this tactic was inevitable. Because of the free flow of information in the modern world (Internet mostly), the doctrines of the WTS can no longer be defended in the old tried and true method - print it as truth and it is truth. It's too easy to debunk not only their core doctrines, but their everyday standards and practices. So, knowing that free thinkers and nonconformists are probably lost to them anyway, they will now strive to keep the ones they have in line with emotional blackmail, guilt and fear. TaDA! Introducing video dramas! Create a scenerio where what is normal to the average person or family is somehow falling short of keeping up with Jehovah's WTS standards. Make the viewer feel guilty, especially family heads. By Jah, we will have that Family Worship! How many husbands/fathers were squirming during this thing?

A couple of nitpicky observations that stuck in my craw for some reason...

Where'd they get black guys with beards? Real actors? ....or dubs allowed to grow a beard for the production? (and how is that different than being a JW actor who plays a part that requires smoking a cigarette or being promiscous, etc)

Mom went to work a 'couple of years ago'. She got a pretty good gig for being out of the work force for 16 or more years. Went right to that board room...

How many dubs can recite a scripture from Deutoronomy while laying on their back working on a sink?

25

Where does the Bible mention 7000 year long Creative Days?

by tim hooper in

to my total astonishment, there is no mention whatsoever in the scriptures re jehovah's creative days being each of 7000 years duration.. nothing!.

zilch!.

...and yet the wt had this to say:.

undercover

Abandoned the doctrine, yes. Recanted, no.

When discussing creation, they no longer give definite lengths for the creative days, other than calling them great lengths of time. They do however, give a glimpse of that old official doctrine by saying that each day could be 'thousands of years each'. Why not just say 'millions', and align more closely with science?

They've even gone so far now as to say that the earth is millions of years old, but that the creative days did not start until much later (Too bad this new doctrine doesn't agree with the Bible - Exodus 20:11) This keeps their doctrine alive, though never specifically calling out the creative days as 7000 years each. They also still claim that Adam was created 6000 years ago, keeping us in the last thousand years of day six.

It's obvious that the WTS doesn't want to be associated with creationists, so they waffle in their creation doctrine, which in fact aligns much closer with creationists than it does scientific fact. The difference between 49,000 years and 6-10,000 years is microscopic when compared to the actual age of the universe - 13.8 billion years.

10

Four Jehovah's Witnesses face death penalty - Victim of Pakistan's Blasphemy Law.

by Sol Reform in

four jehovah's witnesses face death penalty - victim of pakistan's blasphemy law.. http://www.charismanews.com/world/44004-popular-tv-show-the-latest-victim-of-pakistan-s-blasphemy-law.

popular tv show the latest victim of pakistan's blasphemy law 10:00am edt 5/28/2014.

world watch monitor film actress veena malik and her husband, assad khattak khan, were charged with blasphemy after a re-enactment of their wedding appeared on "utho jago pakistan.

undercover

JWs love theocracy... Until it bites em in the ass.

I have conflicted feelings on this. On the one hand, I see a group of zealots reaping the same reward that they expect the rest of the world to reap from dissing their religion and god. This comes from having suffered under their oppression Personally.

On the orther hand, and I actually feel stronger about this feeling - it's a terrible thing when a government or other authority group has the power to kill someone just because they have different religious beliefs. It's a human rights violation and one that shouldn't be tolerated by civilized society. And therein lies the conundrum. Hoping for human rights for a religious group that wishes to see your human rights extinguished...

49

Society money grab tonight

by Red Piller in

wow.

you read about it here.

but, it still doesn't prepare you.. our hall passed a resolution to give about 15,000 to the wt.

undercover

On one hand, it's amazing the level the WTS has stooped to ensure all monies end up in their coffers, but OTOH, whether it's in their account, or the local hall's account, the cult minded zombies continue to hand over their hard earned cash to them, and don't blink an eye at any kind of new accounting procedures.

16

Crap trying to reason with a Mormon He is asking about the Sabath

by Found Sheep in

nice guy i worked with him for about a year.

he is mormon but every time we were in a place to talk he brought up religion, cult thinking.... he needs to come clean i think.... ripe for the vine of non cult thinking but not an ex-jw so i don't have the upper hand?

is there a coc for mormons?

undercover

Your first mistake is that you're trying to reason with a cult member. Just as it is with JWs, it is with Mormons: as long as they want to believe, and don't question the religious authority, you cannot convince them that maybe they're wrong. The doubts and questions have to come from within...and then they can be reasoned with. If a TBM (true blue Mormon) hasn't already questioned on his own the crazy shit they believe, a few nuggets of info on the Sabbath ain't gonna do nuthin...

48

Why are some of you guys calling this new arrangement tithing?

by neverendingjourney in

at the risk of being shouted down, i thought i'd point out that "tithing" means giving 10 percent of your income to a church.

it comes from the old english word teogotha meaning tenth.

i've seen nothing that establishes tithing in the watchtower.. while i'm all in favor of pointing out the watchtower's lies, hypocrisies and faults, the language we use matters.

undercover

i would suggest we should come up with a new name for this new arrangement.

How about what it really is: Coercion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercion

...the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of intimidation or threats or some other form of pressure or force.

61

How did you tell your spouse you want out of the JW religion?

by leaving_quietly in

what did you imagine would happen?

did they react the way you expected?

how did you bring it up?.

undercover

Why do some here have the courage to stand up and say "this is my last meeting" and others not? Any reasons for this?

In my case... where I didn't force a showdown... I already knew that you couldn't force a JW to see facts and logic and come to the realization that the WTS was just another (false) religion. They, just as we were, are indoctrinated. Their real personality is stifled in order to keep the JW personality in charge.

I had always had some doubts, but like most here, managed to keep them stuffed away, never to let them take root. But once a couple of doctrinal changes caused me to out and out question, all those doubts led to some hard research and soul searching. I realized it was bunk, and I tried to slyly introduce evidence for review, but it usually didn't take.

Oh, we had arguments, but by the time it got to that point, the eyes had glazed over, the ears had plugged up and the brain had disengaged, and the cult personality/defense took over. Aside from those moments of disagreement, disappointment, and full on delusion on the part of the JW, the marriage is a good one and is worth fighting for. For me personally, I didn't want the WTS to win her over. I wanted to sway her from them. Still working at it. I've made progress, but the war drags on...Memorial season is usually the toughest time of the year. That's when all our other JW family 'encourage' us to return.

Another thing I read over and over here on this site: When one mate realizes the lies of the WTS and seeks to find freedom from them, their JW mate reasons that by the one leaving the 'truth', it means their marriage is doomed, that they can't continue on without both serving Jehovah the WTS. My wife charged the same thing. I told her that I married her for her, not for our faith, our religion. And instead of just saying it, I had to, over time, and lots of it, show it to her. Just because I'm no longer a practicing JW doesn't mean I've cast her aside as well. I made it a point to keep her first in my life, over work, over other family, over everything else. That part is working. We are closer now than ever. The religion rarely comes up and over time she is now inactive, at least physically. Mentally she has yet to make the final break, but she is more critical in her thinking. She is more independant. She doesn't look to the WTS for solving problems, or choosing sides in social issues (she is in favor of gay marriage and legalizing weed, for instance). Her social life involves 'worldly' people - co-workers, neighbors, people she meets in social settings that have nothing to do with the JW religion. Except for a few sticking points that I haven't been able to break her from, she is not much different than all of us who have already broken free. Once she gets to the point of admitting she was in a cult, then she'll be truly free.

58

G.B. ARRANGED A MEMORIAL WITHOUT EMBLEMS!

by The Searcher in

weird!.

http://ilynca.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/unforgettable-memorial.html?spref=fb.

undercover

"Keep doing this in remembrance of me... unless of course you have a communicable disease, then just wash your hands and sit quietly over there...way over there. Oh, and I'm not going to wash your feet before dinner this time either..."