undercover

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Posts by undercover

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  53

  Jw's and beards

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  without going into details.

  it appears that new light might be coming down the pipes that beards are acceptable.

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  undercover

  It appears that new light might be coming down the pipes that BEARDS ARE ACCEPTABLE.

  Forget it. Ain't gonna happen. They might print some wishy-washy BS aimed more at outsiders peaking in, but they'll never give up what control they have over dedicated followers.

  Here in most of the US, they have the male population obeying their unwritten law. Why would they give up that authority? If they give up an ounce of control here, someone might be emboldened to refuse to obey some other rule over there. No - they won't let that happen.

  At best, they'll make it a local decision - which means one of two things: At best, local elders will continue to hold to whatever standards they've been holding to for the last 50 years, so no gain there. Or at worst, and more likely, local elders will be allowed to make a decision locally - as long as it's approved by the WTS, so again, no gain there.
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  27

  My Lawyers Letter To The Elders

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  for those of you that asked, below is a copy of my solicitors letter to the elders in my old congregation.

  he sent a similar one directly to bethel and a medical directive to my daughters gp to go on her medical records that i have already given permission for her to have a blood transfusion should she need one:.

  .

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  undercover

  I think some of you are way overreacting to that picture. Apparently you never read comic books as a kid or watched any action or sci-fi movies. I can assure you I was exposed to the Paradise book, the Live Forever book, etc. and somehow I survived. Just saying...

  On one hand, I agree. The illustration in and of itself isn't any worse (or as bad) as some comic books, sci-fi movies, etc.

  But - kids know that comic books and sci-fi movies are make believe. It's not real, it's entertainment, escapism, even if they don't know the terms or words to describe it.

  When you sit in a KH and study this material, or sit in your family study and have it beat into your head that if don't obey Jehovah, this is going to happen to you, then this isn't entertainment of a violent nature, it's, at best, indoctrination, or at worst, mental abuse. If these illustrations work on (simple minded) adults, then imagine how it can affect younger, undeveloped, immature minds.
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  16

  Weekend visit from JWs.

  by redvip2000 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  had a visit from the jws this week.

  i've lived in this house since 2012 and this is the first time, they have reached me at home - quite the urgent work.. anyway, i was home on saturday morning and around 10am, there was a knock.

  i had a feeling it would be them.

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  undercover

  'A few minutes' wasted, knowing ahead of time how she would react and answer.

  I don't know why ex-JWs bother baiting JWs at the door and at their carts. We know it goes in one ear and out the other. Better to use that time/debate skills for a JW friend or family member who actually expresses a doubt or concern.

  But, to each his own. If it trips your trigger, happy shooting...
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  30

  How to Fade - The Basics!

  by The Searcher in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this really works.

  i've already applied the basics of this with one elder who "offered" us a shepherding visit.

  we've been totally ignored since!!!

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  undercover

  The following is by no means comprehensive, but it is simple, straightforward, and very effective if you are offered a "shepherding call" ...
  ...simply say "thanks for your offer brothers, but not at the moment. I'll let you know when I feel ready."

  I used a similar approach. After a couple of sheparding calls, and their expressing concern, I told one elder, I was just taking a break (similar to how he stepped down for a period, and I pointed that out to him). I needed to recharge batteries. "Don't worry, I'm not leaving the truth" I told him (you know, Theocratic Strategy and whatnot). That backed them down, and eventually they lost interest. Face it, they have families, jobs, KH chores, their own problems. If someone doesn't come around quick enough, they're going to lose interest and move on to something/someone where they're actually somewhat successful.
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  19

  Can JWs Use Corporal Punishment On Their Children?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can a parent slap or use a "rod of discipline" on their kids?

  i know it's politically incorrect and perhaps illegal, but is it a personal decision based upon the scriptures or is it taboo these days?.

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  undercover

  Shortly before I quit attending meetings, I saw an elder 'disciplining' his granddaughter outside the KH. He was just wailing away on her. She was screaming bloody murder, but he didn't let up. Just kept hitting and hitting. It was basically physical abuse... and not even his kid.

  I did nothing... said nothing, did nothing. Which I have regretted ever since. That's why I remember it like it happened yesterday.

  If I were to see that man today hit a child the way he hit her, I'd break his face. (and don't give me any lip about 'violence begets violence'. Sometimes a bully needs the shit beat out of him, and people who can't help themselves needs someone to come to their aid and defense)
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  15

  Jehovah's Witnesses Do Not Believe in Freedom of Religion

  by xjwsrock in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this statement may seem odd at first.

  you may think of jehovah's witnesses as being an american religion in a country where freedoms exist and are prized.

  you may think of the organization's legal battles in the supreme court to protect certain rights and freedoms.

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  undercover

  You know it's scam religion when the leadership is more concerned with Jimmy Swaggert's tax issues than they are with (true) freedom of (any) religion for it's own members.
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  46

  Mark Sanderson wears an Apple Watch at regional convention

  by Edison Trent in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  last weekend was regional convention and mark sanderson was the bethel speaker for the last talks every day.

  his talks were video streamed from zurich to other cities in switzerland, austria and germany.

  one interesting point was that he wore an apple watch, stainless steel edition (link).

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  undercover

  On one hand, this is a tempest in a teapot. Big deal. Apple Watch. Some wealthy dub probably gave it to him. Not really a scandal or worth worrying about.

  On the other hand, as pointed out already, the leadership is constantly harassing the R&F to avoid materialism, and to work menial jobs, and spurn higher education. So it is fairly hypocritical, and a slap in the face to all those that follow their 'advice'...if they were actually paying attention.

  I say, let em wear all the bling they want. Wear expensive suits, shoes, accessories, watches, rings. Go ahead and look like the con man TV preacher you really are. Maybe some dubs will start to see there's no real difference from the men they worship and the men that other dupes worship.
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  221

  Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.

  imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.

  by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.

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  undercover

  Today's the day that a conference is supposed to be held to see 'whether the monetary sanctions have been effective'.

  It's mid morning on the US west coast. If anyone hears the results of any actions today, please post let u know.
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  24

  Hi everyone, just signed up here

  by samj in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi, i just signed up.

  i'm 35, i've been baptized 20 years, married 15 years.

  it seems like the wife and i are going in opposite directions spiritually.

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  undercover

  still a regular attender and don't plan on leaving, I enjoy the friends I have, and being raised in the truth, it is a matter of being in a comfort zone,

  Welcome. You'll find many who have similar background and experiences. I will caution you however - you will not find many here who "enjoy ... being raised in the 'truth' ". Most of us have left the JW faith. Some here have mentally left, but are trapped physically (family etc). Some have 'faded', slowly drifted away to be able to live their life on their terms. And some have taken a stand and disassociated themselves and have become outspoken against the WTS and some of it's practices.

  I hope that doesn't scare you away, but that you take the time to explore, read experiences, research the claims and then chime in with your thoughts, and explain how being a JW is a comfort zone.
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  38

  2016-07-15 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN RUSSIA New law on missionary activity

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  2016-07-15 to all bodies of elders in russia re: new law on missionary activity.

  translation:.

  to all bodies of elders in russia new law on missionary activity.

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  undercover

  Old Joe Rutherford must be spinning in his grave. What a bunch of pansy-assed wimps. Double speak and underhandedness.

  And it's going to backfire. There's way too much documentation to show that the preaching work, and the dissemination of publications is spearheaded, and controlled, by the WTS (an American religion no less), and not a personal evangelizing effort by single individuals. Poor Russian rank & file dubs are going to get locked up, while the GB, and their brown nosers look forward to moving into their shiny, new ivory tower.