Posts by undercover

13

WT 1/2017: "Why is the Bible sometimes misunderstood?"

by Schnufti in

the bible is designed to be understood by those who are humble and willing to learn.

jesus said to his father: “i publicly praise you, father, lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.” (luke 10:21) the bible is written in such a way that only those with the right attitude would understand its message.

people with a proud attitude—a common trait of “wise and intellectual ones”—tend to misunderstand the bible.

undercover

The Bible is written in such a way that only those with the right attitude would understand its message. People with a proud attitude—a common trait of “wise and intellectual ones”—tend to misunderstand the Bible. But people who read the Bible with the attitude of “young children”—humble and eager to learn—are rewarded with a better understanding of God’s message.

They've been saying this for years. I remember as a kid, if anyone who appeared 'too smart' or 'too proud', older JWs would pre-judge them as unable to accept the 'truth'.

It's a combination of 1) confirmation bias - JWs are mostly uneducated, mostly simple folk, so in theirs minds, and as confirmed by the WT leadership, only the humble, uneducated are drawn to the 'truth' of the Bible and 2) a red herring argument - using the question 'why is the Bible misunderstood' to conclude, without evidence, that 'wise and intellectual ones' (or 'smarter than your average JW') cannot be drawn to the 'truth' of the Bible (or in other words, make good, obedient JW robots)

30

Jesus walked into a bar...

by Slidin Fast in

he asks the barkeep for 13 glasses of water.

he turns to his 12 companions and winks....

undercover

A priest and a member of his flock are playing golf. During the round the man missed a putt, 'goddam it! I missed' says the man.

The priest replies, 'my son, please do not curse in the name of god'

'I'm sorry, Father, it won't happen again'

A couple holes later, the man misses another putt. 'Goddam it! I missed!' Again the priest rebukes him and tells him, 'if you curse like that again, God will strke you down with a bolt of lightening'. Again the man apologizes and promises to never curse again.

On the 18th hole, the man misses a birdie putt to end the round. 'Godam it!! I missed!'

Suddenly the sky grew dark, black clouds formed. A bolt of lightening flashed across the course. When the smoke cleared, there lay the priest dead on the ground, his clothes singed, smoke rising from his dead body. A voice from the heavens was heard, 'Godam it! I missed!'

66

When you were fully in, did you believe that you would not die?

by TTWSYF in

i know that it must seem silly to ask, but my brother and his family think that the big a will arrive before they die.

i tried to explain to my brother that everyone else who has ever lived in the past has died and only jesus has [physically] rose from the dead.. it is amazing that anyone could buy that line.

what crazy cult culture that could make people believe such nonsense?!.

undercover

I was raised in the 'truth' as our culty dub friends like to say. As a child and into my teens I never really questioned it. I did wonder at times how it was that the generation that I just happened to be born in would be the one to see this earth shaking event, and then be the ones to never experience death. On one hand, it was kinda 'cool' to never grow old and die; on the other, there was this lingering doubt... what if this isn't the 'truth'. And of course, as a fully indoctrinated JW, I pushed those doubts out pretty quickly, never allowed them to surface longer enough to gain a foothold.

But as I started doubting other doctrines this one kinda fell away without much consternation. Once you realized that the 'truth' was anything but, it went without saying that to believe that you would live forever was preposterous.

10

Jehovah's Love - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Death

by undercover in

jw
friends

this idea was inspired by another post i saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone.

(i just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later).

wt doctrine basically says that jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of armageddon.

undercover

In last week's WT study, for example, they state that Jehovah has determined, far in advance, the exact date that Armageddon will occur. So there is no "delay" - he's waiting, not for more people to "join his organization", but rather, until his celestial alarm clock goes off.

Yea, they've always said, 'it's not delayed, it's on track' (even tho a lot of dubs don't subscribe to that exactly). But that actually makes for an interesting point. An all knowing, omnipotent god would have to know that the world's population would increase as it has. He is the ultimate mathmetician afterall. And knowing that the population would increase to billions, why would he wait that long, unless he's a sadist (don't answer that). He didn't wait too long from Adam to Noah to put a stop to things. At least the world's population was significantly lower back then.

And of course, that raises the question of just how ominpotent he really is, if he has to destroy everything every so often to keep his subjects in line?

It actually goes back to your comment,

Sometimes they say that, sometimes they say something different. The message changes depending on what point they want to emphasize.

they just make up shit as they go along. None of it really makes sense if you really ponder it long enough.

10

Jehovah's Love - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Death

by undercover in

jw
friends

this idea was inspired by another post i saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone.

(i just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later).

wt doctrine basically says that jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of armageddon.

undercover

This idea was inspired by another post I saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying Armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone. (I just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later)

WT doctrine basically says that Jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of Armageddon. Now, here's the problem. The longer Armageddon is 'delayed', the more human life is set up to be destroyed. Look at 130 years of WT existance. Assuming that this is the one true religion, it's apparent after 130 years, most people of this world aren't accepting that fact. Yet, this old system lingers and lingers, the population increases, more people join the ranks of those to be destroyed, while the ranks of the 'faithful' remain bascially stagnant.

The world population hit 2 billion around the year 1927. Had Jehovah destroyed the wicked in 1914, 1918, 1919, or 1925, as predicted and hoped for, then that's 5 to 6 billion people who would have never suffered destruction. Better to not be born than to have the rug yanked out from under your feet by a vengeful god.

Of what use is it to wait? The world population is increasing exponentially (compared to JWs anyway). Delaying - or allowing more time before, in JW parlance - Armageddon is not allowing 'more' people to be saved, but is adding 'more' people to the list to be destroyed.

Nice god you have there, Watchtower.

81

Elders and Attendants sing, clap and turn backs on Street Preacher after Duluth RC.

by ToesUp in

very strange behavior by the attendants and elders after the duluth, ga, rc.

on the first link the attendants start to exit the arena, then line up and turn their backs on the street preachers.

(around the 6:00 mark).. elders and attendants after duluth rc.

undercover

At least the JWs didn't have baseball bats...

(reference the olden days of Judge Rutherford when attendants where known to go all Negan on demonstrators)

37

JW Stand On Concealed Carry

by Cold Steel in

if a jw wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the society have any moral or ethical problems with it?

in other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

.

undercover

Under the "Brazen Conduct" rules, one could be df'ed over pretty much anything a body of elgubs, decides to!

It's been said a few times before, a JW can be DFd for anything 3 elders decide constitutes DFing, damn the scriptures and sometimes even the WT legal dept.

The gun question is interesting. Never thought about concealed carry, but back when I was growing up, living outside of a metro area, guns were basically a normal thing, even for JWs. Not necessarily protection from other humans, but for hunting, protection of livestock from other animals, and just plain ole target shooting. As the city dubs moved into the area and the city met the country, there were 'debates' about gun ownership. Most city folk didn't see the need for guns, while the country folk were defensive about hanging on to them. The rural JWs kept their guns, depsite 'counsel' otherwise. They learned to not go around bragging about it.

43

Is this the last chance for inactive and df'd ones?

by innerpeace in

hi all, just wondering if there's anything going around about the elders receiving instruction from the society to give inactive ones and disfellowshipped ones one last chance to come back?

i ask because i have a still in family member that i received a message from, and urging me to go back.

the elders are apparently saying there is no time left.

undercover

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

rinse and repeat ad nauseum

10

If You Refuse to Question, How Can You Be Sure of the Answer?

by xjwsrock in

..... let's pose a forbidden question....is the jw faith actually the one true religion?

if you refuse to ask this question with a true open mind and heart, how can it be said you know the answer is yes?

put another way..... if you refuse to ask this question today, how can you really say you know today that the answer is yes?.

undercover

Not sure where this quote originated, but:

Never trust anyone (or organization) that says they have all the answers, but doesn't allow questions

53

Jw's and beards

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

without going into details.

it appears that new light might be coming down the pipes that beards are acceptable.

undercover

It appears that new light might be coming down the pipes that BEARDS ARE ACCEPTABLE.

Forget it. Ain't gonna happen. They might print some wishy-washy BS aimed more at outsiders peaking in, but they'll never give up what control they have over dedicated followers.

Here in most of the US, they have the male population obeying their unwritten law. Why would they give up that authority? If they give up an ounce of control here, someone might be emboldened to refuse to obey some other rule over there. No - they won't let that happen.

At best, they'll make it a local decision - which means one of two things: At best, local elders will continue to hold to whatever standards they've been holding to for the last 50 years, so no gain there. Or at worst, and more likely, local elders will be allowed to make a decision locally - as long as it's approved by the WTS, so again, no gain there.