Reading someone's post on always being sick reminded me: I used to HOPE I would get some problem and be so sick I didn't have to attend. That way, it would be a free ticket to not go to the meetings and people wouldn't judge me for not showing up. I remember daydreaming I had a major illness, they had to make an annoucement about the need to send meals or something and I would daydream the congregation feeling sorry for me and say "I know why she's not here--poor thing." How pathetic is that for me to wish that??? I felt like a rat that needs to chew on its own leg to get out of a trap--no matter the physical pain, I want out! I got so jealous of the men and women who had real problems and when they finally showed up to a meeting everyone would rush to them and congradulation them on coming. But if I missed ONE meeting for a headache or sore back (not good enough reasons, remember) , I would get the critical eye and up turned nose. Crazy.
Vienna
JoinedPosts by Vienna
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Now That I've Joined, I wish That I Hadn't
by TR inany one here get that sinking feeling when you were an active jw?
i'm not talking about the point where we developed doubts about the borg, but just the shear weight of responsibility on your shoulders to uphold "god's kingdom" ala wts.. the topic of doing all you can was brought up frequently.
some would try to sooth by saying "as long as you're doing your best, jehovah will accept you.
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Joining
by Daniel ini want to join the jw family but i am having trouble finding a hall in houston.
do anyone know how i can find one or help me by giving me one in houston.
thanks
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Vienna
I would like to remind You Know and the other "loyal" JWs that you are breaking the rules of your organization by not only reading apostate sites like this one (JW definition of apostate is anyone who used to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses and leaves) and you definately should not be POSTING on an apostate site. Why are you here? You are going against the direction of "the faithful slave" and you really should look at your true heart condition. You are not a loyal JW, and you know this deep inside.
You'll notice Daniel that NO Jehovah's Witness will ever speak on this since they know it's the truth. All of the JWs who have posted will mysteriously go quiet on this....hummmm....interesting....
Vienna
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Joining
by Daniel ini want to join the jw family but i am having trouble finding a hall in houston.
do anyone know how i can find one or help me by giving me one in houston.
thanks
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Vienna
Daniel:
I understand you're frustration. This site can be confusing. Those here are ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, and many have left feeling numb and angry at the mind control the Society has had over their lives. I was a JW for 21 years, and my faith in Jesus has allowed me to get over the bitterness and anger, but it takes so much time for many others. JWs are considered a cult for the following reasons:
Theologically - From a Christian perspective, a group may be defined as a cult when it radically deviates from the essential historic and biblical beliefs of the Christian Church. For example, this would be seen in the various groups which deny the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. JWs believe Jesus is only an angel (which you will find out if you study). There are other deviations that they teach which go against the true gospel.
Sociologically - A group which uses mind control tactics such as subtle fear, guilt, and pressure etc. can be classed as a cult. Daniel, from the outside you might think the JWs are like any other group. But field service is a pressured assignment, the fear of never talking to your family/friends again if you decide to leave is a fear of many. And the guilt of missing meeting, field service, not studying their publications is heavy. Also, if you become a JW, you are told to give up all friends and limit association with family members who are not JWs. They don't tell you this right away--it's told to you mid-study when they feel you are "conforming" as a good JW study and attending meetings regularly.
Cults add their own efforts, their own works of righteousness to the finished work of salvation accomplished by Jesus on the cross. All Cults say that Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient, but our works must be 'mixed with' or 'added to' His in order to prove that we are saved and worthy of salvation. JWs say one thing but believe another. They maintain that they must prove themselves worthy and that they must try their best to please God and prove to Him that they are sincere, have worked hard, and are then worthy to be with Him. But Daniel, this is absolutely wrong. The Bible says that we are saved by grace not by works "For by grace you have been saved through faith...not as a result of works, that no one
should boast, (Eph. 2:8-9, NASB); not by anything we do "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law" (Rom. 3:28, NASB). Because if there was anything that we could do to merit the forgiveness of our sins, then Jesus died needlessly "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through
faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified...I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly (Gal. 2:16,21, NASB). So JW meeting attendance, field service does nothing. And the doctrines of JW are all opposite of the true gospel (please note that their New World Translation of the HOly Scriptures is NOT an approved translation).The Cults will often cite James 2:26 where it says that faith without works is dead. This, of course, is correct; faith without works is dead. If you have real faith it will result in real works of Christianity. That is what James is talking about. But he isn't saying that our works are what saves us, or that they, in combination with the finished work of Christ, save us. James was telling us that if we say we have faith (James 2:14) but we have no works, then that faith won't save us; and faith is what saves us, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"
(Rom. 5:1). It is faith that saves. Incidentally, it should be noted that it is not faith only but faith in the proper object. Just having faith in something doesn't mean you're saved. Faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed. That is why it is important to have the True Jesus. Because if you have great faith but it is in the wrong Jesus, then
your faith is useless.I hope some of this helps. Please e-mail me if you have more questions.
Vienna
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What do you make of this?
by Copernicus ini was wondering what some of you might make of this.
a friend of mine who is still somewhat active just told me about something interesting that happened in his congregation a week or two ago during the wt study.
a publisher raised his hand to comment and related an experience he had while doing magazine work in a parking lot (ugggghhhh!!!
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Vienna
Great post, Prisca! I'm disassociated and happy, not only because of leaving the Society, but because of the glorious freedom I have now in Christ which I didn't have as a JW. Who knew this life was out there!! :)
I would like to encourage those who do come in contact with JWs, if it's possible, to not just give a few words and turn away. Engage the JWs in questions (you know how we just to love to answer questions as a JW *smile*). Get them thinking about doctrine ("Why does Rel. 19:1 say that the great crowd are in heaven? You notice this is the same great crowd you say you're apart of in Rel. 7, because Rel. refers to a great crowd three times, and it's always the same group....etc. etc.) and be friendly. Like I said, if it's possible in the situations.
My husband had a "bible study" with some JWs for many months, having them come over and going through the Knowledge Book and going step by step into doctrine. He acted innocent, saying "Humm, your book says this, but this seems differant from what the bible is saying in this scripture...." and he was able to get them stumped many, MANY times! He actually had the lead conductor to go speechless many times, with this Elder looking at scripture, visually flustered, stuttering and trying hard to explain things, but to no avail. They stopped coming after awhile, but who knows what deep seeds were planted in their hearts?
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Sat. Dist. Conv.--Cracking the whip!
by LostMyReligion ini have put in my final day at this year's test of posterior endurance---saturday at the district convention, 2001. i took quite a few notes today, because some had specifically asked about saturday's program.
i hope all will be suitably edified by them.
do not just listen to bits and pieces of the program, but to the whole thing.
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Vienna
I remember that food thing well. I remember sometimes eating a big meal before a Tuesday night meeting (come on, I worked all day and got home at 6:00, I was usually very hungry) and I would think "The Society recommends I don't do this..." I would feel so guilty when I would be bored to death and distracted, and I would blame it on my lasagna dinner! Hey, I needed a scapegoat! It couldn't POSSIBLY be the meetings that were making me sleepy!
Now on Sunday meetings and bookstudy Saturday's when I DIDN'T eat anything and was bored and sleepy, I didn't have an excuse....well, I guess I could of reasoned that the lasagna was still carrying over!! heh heh!!
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Survey
by Vienna inhow many on this board are: a) christains--not a jw b) jehovah's witnesses c) do not believe in god d) have a belief in god but just not active in anything right now.
i'm new to the board and was curious as to everyone's standing.
i'm 30, a christain, i left the jws 3 years ago (after being in it for 21 years) to follow jesus and heard of, among other good things, this great thing called: grace!
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Vienna
Sorry SlayerLayer--I didn't see your post before I posted or I would of answered.
Yes, in agreement and addition to the post from somebody, they say they are following Jesus but they are not. There are so many instances, I'll just be brief. A few examples (I don't have my bible on me today--quoting from memory), Jesus says that if you don't eat his flesh and drink his blood (communion) "you have no life in yourself". And as you know JWs pass the bread and wine every year at the Memorial (due of course to their doctrines of who goes to heaven/hell which is incorrect), but do you see how the domino's fall--if one belief is wrong about Jesus, other's follow? And you can't get "one" thing wrong about Jesus and claim to be following him, which is the foundation of JW doctrine and one of the reasons I left. There's a quote I love "If you have the right Jesus, you're right for all eternity. But if you have the wrong Jesus, you're wrong for all eternity". Jesus said you will be "witnesses of me" in distant lands, and JWs deny Jesus this witness by ignoring what's actually in the New Testament and referring mostly to the Old Testament and using God's dealing with Isreal as their foundation for most things. There's a scripture that says that Jehovah has given his name to Jesus--the exact scripture I can give when I get my bible. So the honor, worship and witness to Jesus is something Jehovah has put in place. In Jesus' name every knee shall bend. Another thing, Jesus, the Father and Holy Spirit are one, like an orange that is made up of an orange peel, the pulp and seeds. It's all one orange, but three distinct parts. JWs don't teach this blessed Trinity (of course it's a deeper discussion than just the orange illustration). You can't get one right and 100 wrong or vise versa. Following Jesus means following Jesus as He wants it, and that's what I meant in my statement that I'm follwing Jesus now. I hope this post is clear...my thoughts ramble. :)
Vienna
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Survey
by Vienna inhow many on this board are: a) christains--not a jw b) jehovah's witnesses c) do not believe in god d) have a belief in god but just not active in anything right now.
i'm new to the board and was curious as to everyone's standing.
i'm 30, a christain, i left the jws 3 years ago (after being in it for 21 years) to follow jesus and heard of, among other good things, this great thing called: grace!
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Vienna
Thanks everyone for replying and the welcome--you're right outnfree, there is definately lots of diversity in beliefs, which is very interesting. I really identify with your comment, Mulan, on finding Jehovah, but not the JW Jehovah. That was one of the hardest things to change in my mind, because everytime I looked at a scripture I always thought of the God that the JWs had created (and don't forget the New World's Translation, and how that version was printed just to fit JW doctrine).
It took a long time to develop a personal relationship with God, and now it's still an ongoing process. It's funny how much they controlled our thoughts and what we should think--don't you all think it has even permanately shaped even our personalities?? Okay, the bible says there's nothing we can do to earn salvation because we are sinful, only Jesus can give salvation, and that's the hardest thing to keep in my head because for YEARS I was told meetings, field service, etc. would give me salvation--and that was a maybe. Now that I've given my life to Christ and knowing that my eternal salvation is secure, I still find myself some days thinking I'm not doing "something." It was drilled all of my life that meetings, field service, etc. would give me salvation (maybe, don't forget the maybe), and after finding that's not the case, it STILL feels strange. I love not doing those things, because those things were so burdensome, but I can't explain itl...just that the mental mind shaping of the JWs always stays with you. Jesus came to earth to bring relief, not a burden, and it's amazing how as JWs we didn't see how much a burden we were under for so long. The Jesus/Jehovah of the JW is a big switch from the Jesus/Jehovah of the true gospel, and the differences are like night and day. It's such a big mental (and emotional) adjustment--I still cry sometimes!!! We have all been through a lot, some more than others and I totally understand the numbness some of you feel because I went through that.
Vienna
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Survey
by Vienna inhow many on this board are: a) christains--not a jw b) jehovah's witnesses c) do not believe in god d) have a belief in god but just not active in anything right now.
i'm new to the board and was curious as to everyone's standing.
i'm 30, a christain, i left the jws 3 years ago (after being in it for 21 years) to follow jesus and heard of, among other good things, this great thing called: grace!
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Vienna
How many on this board are: a) Christains--not a JW b) Jehovah's Witnesses c) Do not believe in God d) Have a belief in God but just not active in anything right now
I'm new to the board and was curious as to everyone's standing. I'm 30, a Christain, I left the JWs 3 years ago (after being in it for 21 years) to follow Jesus and heard of, among other good things, this great thing called: grace! *smile* I admire any JWs who come to this board--seems hard to put up with a lot of the comments here. Please answer my survey everyone! Thanks!
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Vienna
How old is everyone on this board? Just curious....maybe these posts are just kids and don't speak for those who make up the other discussions...
Vienna
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Issue Facing Apostates
by Mishnah inmost of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.
even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.
so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.
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Vienna
I agree with you Mishnah, there are lots of people on this board who hate God. It really hurts my heart to see that, because so many leave the JWs, forgetting that it's the organization of men and not God that has mislead them. I was a JW for 21 years and have been following the true and wonderful Jesus Christ for the past three years. Please remember that many JWs are wonderful people who have just been mislead, and being mean, thoughtless and outright nasty does nothing to draw them out. And these are not qualities that our Lord Jesus Christ has. There are many wonderful people who are JWs, so PLEASE stop having hatred for people if they are in that organization and show some humanity. If it were not for people heaping me with love WHILE showing me the wrongness of the organization, I would of probably still BE a JW. Of course our heavenly Father draws His sheep to him (thankful everyday he drew me out), but it's up to us who are out to us words of kindness along with facts to help JWs. Jesus is wonderful. The Father is wonderful (beyond description). And there is a beautiful and happy life full of praise and honor to our creator, even after being a Jehovah's Witnesses. Please stop the nasty remarks and sarcastic comments to those who are JWs. Please.
Vienna