voltaire

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Posts by voltaire

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  82

  Prevalence of JW Suicides - Real or Imagined?

  by AMNESIAN in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in one or two recent threads i've seen reference to the possibility of a rising number of jw suicides being another of the organization's very dark realities about which it is vigilant in keeping concealed from its pub populace.

  is there anyone reasonably informed regarding this?

  is there reason to suppose the incidence ratio among jws is any higher than among any peoples/religion?

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  voltaire

  It seems to me there is a great deal of depression among JW's. Is it higher than the general population? We could probably
  only find out with the society's cooperation. That won't happen. If the rate of depression/suicide is only equal to that of the general population, that is suficient to show that there's no mystical force at work in the congregations. Jim Penton reports that the society held a meeting in which JW doctors were consulted. According to him, the brothers in charge were told that the average JW is under a lot of pressure and therefore more suceptible to depression than the average person. If I recall correctly, Penton believed this was behind the barrage of articles in the 80's that emphasized how caring God is.
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  23

  Mainstreaming and the Greatest Mystery

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the future of the watchtower society?.

  this subject is the greatest mystery of my life.

  been in the borg since infancy - my parents and.

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  voltaire

  Interesting observations! Several of your previous posts have gotten me thinking about these
  very subjects. Many on this board seem to be expecting the Society's collapse, or as in
  your case, at least a thorough restructuring. It's difficult for me to come up with any cogent
  analysis about what to expect of the Society in the future. I'm sure that the internet(as well
  as other societal changes)will have an impact both on policy and publisher peaks(couldn't
  resist the alliteration). I don't think, however, that the Society will ever suffer a serious shortfall
  of persons who are fed up with the world we live in or who need the kind of structure the
  Society offers. I do firmly believe that the society will never again exercise the kind of firm
  control over the hearts and minds of its flock as it once did. I am a good example of this.
  I am still in good standing in my congregation even though I would describe myself as an
  agnostic who believes firmly in evolution. In the past, I imagine I would have probably been DF'ed
  or would have drifted away. Very possibly, the feelings and questions that were surfacing
  would never have found expression or led to a thorough investigation of the WTS. I probably
  would have ended up talking to my elders in order to assuage my feelings of guilt. I suspect that more
  and more witnesses will be sharing my experience. There will be more and more of us who
  simply will not conform, and no amount of guilt-generating articles will faze us. We will
  simply have quite believing that the Society has any legitimite authority.

  What effect will we have on the society? I'm (fairly) certain that their will be a relaxation of standards.
  Maybe their will even be some apologies. In the end, I expect that the society will respond any way it
  has to in order to survive. Despite my uncertainty about the Society's future course, I do agree that
  it will be very interesting to watch.(BTW-Are you still a witness? I assumed you were DF'ed of DA'ed,
  but you say that you've been a dub your whole life)
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  4

  Sir Fred Hoyle-Anyone read his books?

  by voltaire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as any jw knows(ex or otherwise)fred hoyle is often referred to by the.

  society to support the idea that evolution is not accepted by all scientists.. in fact, one gets the impression that most scientists know that it's all nonsense,.

  but that's another story.. my queston is this: has anyone read his books?

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  voltaire

  I am intrigued by Hoyle's remark that there are plenty of reasns to doubt that there ever was a creation. If I'm not mistaken, he is a proponent of the steady-state theory. That is, he doesn't believe in a begining at all. If I understand him properly, he's insinuating that the inteligence behind our existence is extraterrestrial(in other words, little green men). I'll have to read his book for myself.
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  4

  Sir Fred Hoyle-Anyone read his books?

  by voltaire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as any jw knows(ex or otherwise)fred hoyle is often referred to by the.

  society to support the idea that evolution is not accepted by all scientists.. in fact, one gets the impression that most scientists know that it's all nonsense,.

  but that's another story.. my queston is this: has anyone read his books?

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  voltaire

  As any JW knows(ex or otherwise)Fred Hoyle is often referred to by the
  society to support the idea that evolution is not accepted by all scientists.
  In fact, one gets the impression that most scientists know that it's all nonsense,
  but that's another story.

  My queston is this: Has anyone read his books? He is qouted by the society as
  saying that inteligence is evident in the "design" of the universe. At the same
  time I've read on the net that he is quite dismissive of creationists. He seems to
  believe that life arrived here from outer-space and then evolved. Just what are his
  views on creation? Does he believe in a personal creator?
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  7

  Advertise, Advertise, Advertise

  by individuals wife in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is a possibility that during my time as a jw i had knocked on every door and rang every doorbell and met just about every person in my whole area, especially during my over zealous pioneer episodes.

  now that i have left i have the dilemma of how to show everyone i'm normal again!

  it would be nice to walk down the street without sensing that everyone is trying not to meet your glance (mild paranoia!).

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  voltaire

  Follow the witnesses around yanking tracts out of the hands of those they've
  already talked to. Everyone will know where you stand.(They'll probably still
  avoid you though)
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  3

  DC Public Talk...Truth Absolute or Obselete?

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the public talk was entitled 'who are teaching all nations the truth?'..

  quite a heady title you might think.

  as you might expect the talk was weak in substance.

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  voltaire

  Speaking of clergy/laity divisions, what about the 144,000/great crowd division?
  At least Catholics teach that all the faithful will receive the same reward. I'm
  surprised they can say there's no division with a straight face. (On second thought, I guess
  I'm not so surprised)
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  59

  3 meetings per week NOT FIVE!!!

  by sawthelight in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  am i the only person ever to fall under the influence of the borg who can count?.

  no offence all but jws meet three times per week.not five!

  i consider the familiar statement about 5 meetings per week to be a good indication of just how indoctrinated a person is.

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  voltaire

  I agree. Your average Joe would say there are 3 meetings. What this shows is that JW's will say(and most likely think) whatever they are told to. If the society told them to think of their life as one long meeting, there would be 1 meeting per week. Or the society could reason that each second is a self contained mini-meeting, in which case we would constantly hear from the platform how important it is to be in attendance at all 1,800 weekly meetings. I remember first hearing the idea of having 5 meetings versus three. A part of me felt it was corny, but I supressed it.(By the way, isn't it uncanny that their are 5 fingers on the hand and 5 meetings a week? I think I see some divine influence in there somewhere)
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  81

  Nourishment for the Spirit

  by Maximus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my observation is that persons who 1) heal/adjust the most rapidly from their jw experience and 2) seem to have the most joy in life are those who read, read, read, in pursuit of what i call nourishment for the spirit.

  i've really enjoy the pithy aphorisms you use here, which suggests you've distilled some wisdom from somewhere.

  i'm going to ask your help in this thread.

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  voltaire

  Excellent question General! Lately I've been reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
  In fact, if it were'nt for The Gladiator movie, I doubt I would have picked it up.(For those who
  haven't seen the movie, Maximus was the general who served under Aurelius. Yes, Marcus
  Aurelius was a real caesar and Commodus was his son.) Marcus Aurelius wrote what
  amounts to a diary filled with his personal musings on life, death and how best to lead
  our lives from day to day.The WTS says that the Bible is filled with the feelings
  and thoughts of men who were like us, but who lived centuries ago and therefore we can
  derive insight on the human condition from those writings. As I read what this man pondered during his life, I am truly
  amazed as I feel myself connecting with a real human being from the past. The language is a bit
  literary and occasionally archaic(there are plenty of footnotes to explain such passages),
  but his humanity shines through. By comparison, many of the dialogues in the Bible seem
  oddly distant and contrived as though filtered by centuries of editing and reworking, more fable than real, down-to-earth
  human preocupations.

  Also I liked Kenneth Miller's Finding Darwin's God. If I hear one more JW speaker say that evolutionists
  are not humble because they don't believe in God, I will be tempted to launch this book from the back row
  It would erase any notion a JW might have that evolution = atheism.
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  7

  Request for some advice pls.

  by Mr Angry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a request for some advice pls.. firstly, a bit of background.. my mother raised my younger brother and i in the truth.

  she did so alone until she remarried in the early 80s.

  my stepfather was a dyed in the wool dub who never varied from the party line.

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  voltaire

  Don't appologize for the need to air your feelings! That is the great value of this board.
  Unfortunately, the society provides little or no avenue for the discussion of some
  topics, which leads to a lot of pent-up anger and frustration.

  If your step-father committed a transgression before becoming a witness, there is
  little likelihood of his receiving any organizational discipline over the matter. Even if he
  had been a witness, there is generally a "statute of limitations." It's a rather vague one,
  but twenty or more years ago would surely be off-limits, unless it were a particularly
  scandolous sin.(Anything consentual(sp?) would probably not qualify) The questions elders
  were once asked to consider when reviewing a case of wrongdoing by a brother that
  took place many years ago were(paraphrased):

  1 Has he/she repented of the misconduct?(An obvious implication is that it is no longer taking place)
  2 Does he/she show evidence of Jehovah's blessing/have a clean conscience?(This is a classic!
  If the person has no conscience, he can more easily sweep the conduct under the "mental rug".
  For those who are truly sensitive, they are more likely to be seen as needing discipline)
  3 Has he/she hurt anyone by the conduct? (A child molester would be more likely to be disciplined
  than someone who participated in a consentual(sp?) act. That is, if the child molester confesses.)
  There is a chance that, if enough bad publicity were generated, he would feel compelled to give up
  his priveleges. Or the elders might force it on him.

  I wouldn't encourage you to act on any bitter feelings, though. If you truly feel you would feel better
  by seeing him exposed, maybe it would be worth the effort. Otherwise it might be best for your
  psychological health to let it go. Talk to a trusted friend or counselor about it first. And keep coming
  here. It helps to exchange ideas with others who have shared experiences.
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  19

  Is there any JW's on here?

  by Devilman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  iam trying to work out how many of u are proper witnesses?

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  voltaire

  I am still in good standing in my congregation. I am not as active in the ministry as
  I once was, but I am still an active witness. Except for two people, all those who
  know me would probably consider me "proper". (I assume your question has no
  bearing on my table manners)