i have gone through various emotions including anger at the wtbts for all that i went through while growing up only to be disfellowshipped at 22.. my net result is a dead father due to the blood issue and a split family and, of course, years of wasted time.. i would like to say, however, that i am not angry with all witnesses and i am not a conspiracist who believes the leaders have a hidden agenda.. i believe that informed persons should be able to join the witnesses if they believe it is right for them.. what i hate though is the fact that thousands of children, like i was, are still indoctrinated from birth.
they are told "we don't baptise babies because they are too young to choose it for themselves.
" but in reality, what choice are you really giving a child who by the age of 13 would have experienced: 3380 hours of meetings, 832 hours of larger assemblies, possibly 1560 hours of field service, at least 2028 hours of personal study (watchtower, book study and personal study) and more importantly, what choice does a child have who is told they have an open mind but who is never allowed examine religions or persons with opposing views?.
Amazing,
I agree with your sentiments that the society needs to change its cultish mentality. But I also see that no longer teaching that they are God's exclusive organization could cause some real problems. Why go out in service? It's just not that easy to get people involved and active if you don't have some leverage. And what better leverage than you've got to save the world?
laura schlessinger is a us radio personality who dispenses advice to.
i have tried asking, but most women take offense.. d) lev.
he violates lev.
I want a Canadian. Can I get mine grilled? I don't like fried food.
you've seen the proof in black and white.
just stop fighting it.
facts aren't enough?
Ashitaka,
I agree with your premise that the WTS's house won't collapse. As long as people want to believe, there'll be religions to provide that service. If we can just get witnesses to take a less dogmatic view toward their religion(i.e. blood, shunning and hiding pedophilia) I will view that as a tremendous victory. So step back all you JW's, take a deep breath and get ready to have your worldview tweaked!
i thought this post really summed up the wt very well.
and i agree-- for all you lurkers out there we can only feel pity for you as you try so hard to hold onto a pipe dream-.
if you ever needed a reason to take a serious look at your belief system this is it.. .
I agree Fred, the WT didn't join the UN. It only agreed to support the agenda of the UN. That's not so bad now, is it? (Fred, this last sentence is "irony". Look it up)
here is my situation: my fiance is now 27 years old.
he was raised as a jw from the age of 2 through 18. at that time, his whole family left the "truth" except for his older brother who had already married another woman from the faith.
for the past 9 years, he has been living his life to the fullest, but still loving god, praying often and he is a truly honest and moral person.
I'm truly saddened to hear about the difficulties you are having, and I'm ashamed that the religion that my mother taught me and that I learned as a child is capable of causing anyone so much pain. I no longer believe intellectually that the Watch Tower has the "TRUTH", but I must admit that I FEEL lingering doubts from time to time. It's difficult to convey to a non-witness the power of the process that indoctrinates a witness youth. We hear that God is going to destroy the world at the battle of Armageddon from such a young age. We NEVER hear any opposing info. and we're strongly encouraged not to look for any such information or get the kind of education that would provide it.
The most productive avenue, in my opinion, is to research and review the numerous times the society predicted the end. Freeminds.org has plenty of info on 1975. Did you know that the society predicted the end of the world as far back as 1874?(I think I've got the date right. It's close, if not right on.) In fact, the founder of the religion was heavily influenced by men who associated with William Miller. Miller predicted the end in 1843 and 1844. Russell was positive that the last days started in 1799. Of course, we're never told about this. You can be expelled for simply reading about it!
A thought about the "peace and security" thing. The war on terrorism is going to last for years. I don't think that the nations of the earth are going to proclaim peace and security as long as there are terrorists who are attacking the West. The strange
thing about it is that when there is a "lull" in the fighting, witnesses think that the nations are gearing up for the peace and security announcement. When something terrible happens, they panic about it and think it means the end of the world, too! C'mon, Which is it? The truth is that the WT society wants people to get out and preach. They really believe that it's imperative that as many people be contacted as possible with their message. I believe most are sincere, but misguided. The men in Brooklyn want the end to come more than anyone else. They have invested their whole lives in this religion. As a result you will find that they play on the natural angst and fear that we all have in order to draw us to the "truth". And when lots of people are coming into the organization, it validates their position and belief system.
Tell your boyfriend that I believe that he needs to treat his witness-generated fears as an abnormal, unhealthy mental state that requires help. He find what he needs on the net. He may need some therapy. This board has been therapeutic for me. There's another good site by Timothy Cambell. You can't miss it with a little searching on the net. It always comes up as one of the first few. Beyond Jehovah's Witnesses, I think it is.
I hope this helps. I'm sure you'll get lots of advice. Namaste.
disassociation versus disfellowshipping is an interesting discussion for several reasons.
morally, one thing matters: both are procedures put in place by the wts to impose shunning.
that is the bottom line.
Maximus et al,
These threads leave me drooling, they are soooo tantalizing. I get the impression that there's a lot going on beneath the surface that would be fascinating to know about. Do keep us posted.
this was posted on msnbc.com under an article explaining why people jumped off the twin towers.. years ago, frederick says, a colleague of his set up an experiment where he subjected laboratory animals to excruciating pain.
they could go into another chamber to escape the pain, but if they did they would get their heads chopped off.
other lab animals were allowed to observe this, so they knew what would happen.
I would have jumped, too. It was the most rational thing o do. Those poor folks were being cooked alive. The temperatures melted the steel. I would've rather gotten it over with, too. I imagine hitting the ground wouldn't involve any suffering, any conscious awareness of pain.
this was posted on msnbc.com under an article explaining why people jumped off the twin towers.. years ago, frederick says, a colleague of his set up an experiment where he subjected laboratory animals to excruciating pain.
they could go into another chamber to escape the pain, but if they did they would get their heads chopped off.
other lab animals were allowed to observe this, so they knew what would happen.
I would have jumped, too. It was the most rational thing o do. Those poor folks were being cooked alive. The temperatures melted the steel. I would've rather gotten it over with, too. I imagine hitting the ground wouldn't involve any suffering, any conscious awareness of pain.
if i am misquoting the theology espoused by jws then please correct me.. but i am trying to appreciate their theology as far as death and armageddon are concerned.
we know that the jw belief is as follows: "he who has died has been acquitted of his sin".
this is often used to imply that almost all who die prior to the great tribulation or armageddon will receive a resurrection of life or judgement (ok we know sodom dudes, judas and the flood victims wont get one according to jw theology).
Ballistic,
That famous scientist turned out to be wrong! The universe is, at its most fundamental level, random in nature. I do agree that it makes sense to assume that a loving, all-powerful God wouldn't play dice. The fact that the universe is a dice game makes one wonder if there really is a God. (Einstein made the remark to Bohrs, I believe. Einstein didn't believe in quantum mechanics because it violated his notion of how the universe should be(presumably orderly and predictable). In the world of planets and baseballs it is, in the world of the very small it most evidently is not.)
as one of the knowledge-seekers who has not had the means or opportunity to do a lot of research i have benefitted greatly from the work of alan, jan and some some others.. i have a question concerning the different "paths" which are followed on the way "out" of the dubs.
how many paths are there?
how does one find the questions to ask - without getting stuck in a direction?.
Amazing,
Just wanted to let you know that I for one(I'm sure there are many others) am having an interesting time just watching on the sidelines. Thousands will surely benefit(maybe millions), even if they don't know about the work you and others are doing and even if they think you're an evil apostate.
