Xena,
good advce, thank you.
Yerusalim, I may do that, thanx.
voltaire
JoinedPosts by voltaire
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26
I'v got to tell something this!
by voltaire ini've posted several times about how i'm fed up with the witnesses but my wife won't budge.
she's become a bit more tolerant lately, but mostly we get along better when we don't talk about anything substantive.
i've been working up the nerve to tell the elders why i don't go out anymore.
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14
A Desirable Bethel 'Palace Coup'
by metatron inthe moment is ripe for a 'palace coup' at bethel/paterson.. the organization is sinking into deepening trouble.
damaging.
leaks are occuring - everyone's loyalty is becoming suspect.. are there no real men left at bethel?
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voltaire
I think they may suffer from an inability to see that their tried and true defense, disfellowshiping, doesn't work anymore. They are stonewalling, dissembling and spinning their way around the situation as though those who disagree can easily be cut off, no longer able to influence the thinking of the rank and file. It used to work, but the net has changed that. We don't go away, we organize rather than be isolated and, as a result, neutralized. If they wake up fast, they probably have time to keep things afloat with a minimum of change. If they they don't adapt to the new way things are done, they'll most likely run into serious problems down the road.
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26
I'v got to tell something this!
by voltaire ini've posted several times about how i'm fed up with the witnesses but my wife won't budge.
she's become a bit more tolerant lately, but mostly we get along better when we don't talk about anything substantive.
i've been working up the nerve to tell the elders why i don't go out anymore.
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voltaire
Again thank you for the comments, I appreciate being able to talk with all of you about these difficult issues. That's really been the hard part about all of this, my conversations with my wife degenerated into constant arguments (not heated with shouting and all, but very tense unpleasant conversation just the same), so I've not really had anyone to open up to about how I feel. This board is great!
Prisca,
I don't resent in any way those who make comments that I don't want to hear. That's the nice thing about being in the "world", you can disent. There is room for principaled disagreement. It's true that I promised my wife that I would stay with her forever. I feel very bad about not believing that the WT isn't the truth. To be honest, I was happier when I thought that god would make everything turn out right in the end. As they say, "reality sucks". But the advantage with reality is that it's real. (I know that's redundant) It's also the only thing we've got. I have struggled with this part of it. If it weren't for my wife, I wouldn't have tried so long and so hard to make myself believe something that simply makes no sense to me. I thought about it from every angle that I could. It doesn't add up and I won't/can't be a part of it anymore.
There are two angles here.First, would I have married her if I had not been lied to by the society? No way. She's a fine person. Smart and attractive. But, looking at it objectively, if the most beautiful woman in the world invited me to go down to Jonestown, well... it's a no-brainer as they say. My wife's beliefs are strange, and even threaten our lives(talking about blood) I won't rant on about this anymore. So why did I promise her to love her forever? I was under the delusion, inspired by self appointed prophets, that the world was going to end anyday. She and I wanted to pioneer, go to Gilead ( we were invited to the 100th (?) class, but I got very sick just a few weeks before the letter came) and save as many people as possible from the world-wide destruction. (madness!!!) She's still delusional, I'm not, I've recovered and I want a real life. (I guess the real life part is point #2) I could live a life devoid of any meaningful emotional contact, never have children (for the reasons explained above) and probably get by. She's not going to be terribly happy under those conditions either by the way.
So, in a nutshell, am I obligated to keep a promise made under those circumstances? Is it worth ruining two lives, hers and mine, for the sake of keeping a promise? Is not inevitable that this will happen again to me, and maybe her? (leading separate lives makes the chances of infidelity a lot greater, i'm sure)
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26
I'v got to tell something this!
by voltaire ini've posted several times about how i'm fed up with the witnesses but my wife won't budge.
she's become a bit more tolerant lately, but mostly we get along better when we don't talk about anything substantive.
i've been working up the nerve to tell the elders why i don't go out anymore.
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voltaire
Amarie,
I feel so disenchanted/disillusioned with my wife. If she would have admitted to me that there is some room for doubt, I would have felt so much better. She really seems to believe that every last word is true. It drives me crazy. I had to reason with her a long time about why she should explain my situation to doctors should I need a blood transfusion. And in the end, even tho' she gave in ( reluctantly) I don't believe her. At least I should say I don't really trust her on that point. I really don't feel much of anything for her anymore, I've reached the point where I feel that only one of us can be happy, never both at the same time.
Martini,
Naughty, naughty. Actually, I really want to have a family. Latins love kids and families. It's a nice match.
Puffsrule,
Why talk to the elders? I could be evasive, but I feel an overpowering urge to be candid, to lay it all on the line. Also, I think it will be the final opportunity for my wife to show where she stands. I'll be able to leave with a clean conscience.
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26
I'v got to tell something this!
by voltaire ini've posted several times about how i'm fed up with the witnesses but my wife won't budge.
she's become a bit more tolerant lately, but mostly we get along better when we don't talk about anything substantive.
i've been working up the nerve to tell the elders why i don't go out anymore.
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voltaire
Thanks for the replies. Good advice about not sneaking around. I'm going to talk to an elder this weekend, lay it all out on the line. not sure how long that'll take, but it shouldn't be too long. Fortunately, there are no kids. emotional distance = Not much sex = No children.
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23
Did you REALLY believe Armaggedon was coming?
by sleepy indid you ever really believe armaggedon was just about to happen?.
maybe to such a degree that you were scared or made major changes in your life?.
i'm not old enought to remmeber 1975 but with the gulf war a lot of people got scared and believed the end was coming ( including me).. werent we doing the revelation book at the time?.
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voltaire
Yes, I did. We used to sit around at Mcdonald's on break and talk about it being just a few years off, five at most. That was 1985 or so. I like what someone who posts here has at the end of their posts, "I believe in life before death." That's my new motto. no more waiting on pie in the sky.
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26
I'v got to tell something this!
by voltaire ini've posted several times about how i'm fed up with the witnesses but my wife won't budge.
she's become a bit more tolerant lately, but mostly we get along better when we don't talk about anything substantive.
i've been working up the nerve to tell the elders why i don't go out anymore.
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voltaire
I've posted several times about how I'm fed up with the witnesses but my wife won't budge. She's become a bit more tolerant lately, but mostly we get along better when we don't talk about anything substantive. I've been working up the nerve to tell the elders why I don't go out anymore. I've also been making new friends so I won't be so dependent on the society. That's really the big stick they wield, they can take away all your friends with the stroke of a pen. So I basically don't go to any meetings now, instead I hang out with my new friends. They're awesome! (if you'll allow me to employ teen-speak) At any rate, I now have a new problem, one I didn't really expect. I assumed that my wife and I would just lead our separate lives, she'd do meetings and I'd do normal non-dub things. It's incredibly difficult emotionally to be in my situation though, I feel so distant from my wife. That's obviously not good for a marriage. Another thing that's not good for a marriage is for the two parties to lead separate lives. (Thank you WT for that kick in the teeth, if it were'nt for shunning I wouldn't have begun to have felt the need to look elsewhere for support) Anyway, I met the most beautiful woman from Ecuador last month at a Christmas party(Yes, I did Christmas this year, twice! Did you know that the Orthodox Christians celebrate it in January? note to self When celebrating Christmas with Ukrainians, don't forget to appoint a designated driver) getting back to the story.... She taught me how to dance to the Latin music. It was great! I felt a little twinge of heart-sickness, but I got over it. Except that she shows up another time. When we walk to a restaurant with the group, she puts her arm around mine. That's not so unusal among Latins. ( I'm the only Gringo among them) Sometimes a man and a woman will stroll along that way just chatting, you think there's somthing romantic, but the next week they're all slightly rearanged. They're a rather tactile group. It's nice. The third time I saw her, I offered to pick her up for coffee the following day. We ended up having a rather romantic evening( no sex, but a few kisses)on her couch. Neither of us seemed to set out with any romantic intentions in the forefront of our minds, I (and she) would have probably denied any real romantic interest if you had asked us the day before. But after awhile we seemed to be moving closer, talking, watching TV, playing the card game uno. One of us would sigh and the other would ask what they were thinking. But we didn't want to say anything. After awhile it got to be almost comical. I'm on the couch with this beautiful woman, we're snuggled together, holding hands but seem unwilling to say out loud that anything is going on. We had talked about her life and mine earlier in the evening, so we understand each other pretty well. I'm thrilled, scared, elated, worried, incredibly alive and hyper-nervous all at the same time.
I know the elders will disfellowship me, and I've known for a long time that that would be the practical end of our marriage. I feel a little guilty. I'm sorry for my wife, she seems to love me. But after struggling for three years, I can't see any other way out of it. If it's not this girl, it'll be another. (I hope it's this one!) It's a terribly vulnerable position to be in. I can't go out in service because I don't want to spread information that I don't agree with, If I sit at home waiting for my wife, I become a JW widower. I'm in my early thirties. It's a little young to call it quits. Plus I'd like to have children. Wouldn't it be nice to not have your little ones come home from the KH with questions like, "daddy, why do you serve Satan?" or "Why is Jehovah going to kill you at Armageddon?" So, I don't know if this has any real point, not exactly a question in there. As the brother says during the bookstudy when he knows he needs to fill time, but can't think of anything clever to ask, "any further comments?"
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4
Halt On Building Work! Update
by freeborg inover a week ago a comment was made regarding a global halt on all kingdom building work.
these rumours started in the united kingdom and came from a number of sources.
as per usual the truth of the rumour is a bit different from what is said on the witness grapevine.
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voltaire
The world is changing. It becoming a bit (just a bit) more rational, hence fewer contributions.
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Are you in the right religion?
by Stealth into help choose the right religion for yourself answer 20 questions at the web site below and it will rank the best religions for you.. for myself jw was #6 just under sda and just before mormans.
i guess i am still brainwashed.
http://www.selectsmart.com/.
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voltaire
It says I should start a cult that worships Kent, Jan and Norm. They now make up my unholy trinity.
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voltaire
Just when you think you've got a guy figured out!