Posts by wasistdas

66

Interfaith Relationship

by Christina77 in

i am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).

the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.

this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.

Christina, it sounds like he's trying to just please his parents. I mean neither of us can read his mind but judging by his actions... Kids of Witnesses often just go along with the activities to please their parents when they are really not into them because they love god. I'd like to tell you more about my own personal experience. It was such a situation with my brother. OUr parents raised him as a witness, but they encouraged us in the way of truth ( as I consider it) they didn't try to force us or put undue pressure. My mom and dad never said, You have to do it this way! They told us why or why not we should. My brother lingered on the fringes of the congregation for a long time just for the sake of my mom. MOre than once, he got himself into situations requiring disciplinary action, but the first couple of times he was reproved because of his repentant attitude. Finally though, he had to be disfellowshipped. When that finally happened, it was a relief! Even though we all regretted the circumstance, my parents and I both felt relieved that finally it had gone either one way or the other. Which shows to me that we'd all rather him make his own decisions. But my point is, it was much harder for everyone when he was just putting up pretenses. As of now? he is still disfellowshipped but we keep in good, though non-spiritual, contact with him. He has expressed a desire to get back into spiritual things because of his new wife and baby. We keep a distance, letting him make the choice himself. If he does, he won't be doing it for our parents. He'll be doing it because he believes it is right. Or he won't. either way its better that he's making decisions. He can be reinstated into the congregation, whether that happens or not depends entirely upon himself. I hope this maybe gives you more insight into the whole disfellowshipping thing. Granted, it is a very tough and emotionally complicated matter for all sides. I know not every family has handled things as well as my parents have. But who am I to criticize. Disfellowshipped ones knew before their baptism that they will be held accountable for their actions, and they know whether their relationship is restored with the congregation depends entirely on them.
I really appreciate your attitude Christina, it reflects that of many admired acquaintances I have had that were not of my faith. I really hope things work out Ok for you. I dont want you to continue to be hurt by someone who in my viewpoint is just not honest. In myh relationships, I cannot under any circumstances share my life so closely as with that of a husband who does not share my faith. That would be too unhappy for me. But furthermore, I have to be even more selective because just because someone says they're a christian doesn't mean they behave as one. I hope you realize that before its too late. If he's serious about his convictions, and hte two of you get married, there will be much tension, and naturally he will want you to share the same beliefs, as you probably will with him. YOu should understand that if he believes what he believes, and he loves you, he's not going to want you to lose out on what he believes is in mankinds future! But he's not acting like he really loves you. HE's acting like he really loves himself. My mom married someone selfish, please do not do the same. And with your daughter...All I can say is if you marry him without clearing this thing up, you are only asking for loads of trouble. Its better maybe for her to be with a single loving parent than two who fight like cats and dogs.

66

Interfaith Relationship

by Christina77 in

i am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).

the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.

this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.

wasistdas

I still think Christina has a point. It's not as if she's telling us what to do, she is simply requesting that the people responding stay focused for her sake. I mean, obviously we dont HAVE TO.

Christina, Pardon my speaking frankly but, if you disrespect him so much why are you still with him? I mean I know he's wierd, but you either ARE going to really try to put yourself in his shoes and understand where he's coming from or you are not. If he's not worth it, then LOSE HIM! It sounds like you are just out to put down his religion but you still hang out with him. WEll, I'm sorry but you are not going to get him without the JW part. Its a permanent part of the package, no matter what he is doing, which side he ends up being on. If he still cares about it even after all this he is obviously going to for quite some time. So dont expect him to completely put it away for you...I'm not saying he should or shouldn't Im' just saying I wouldn't hold your breath. HE's obviously not putting either thing first. Man, I'd give this advice to any chick over any guy... Are you going to let him tug you around, or are you going to make decisions for yourself? He seems like your typical trying to have the best of both worlds type person...and the truth is these two "worlds" don't overlap. I think you're probalby thinking, "Oh i love the part of him thats not a witness..." well the person you fell in love with was all wrapped up in his being a witness. You don't really love HIM if you cut out his witness part because thats who he is. You gotta decide what to do about it.
Ok. I still suggest that you read what the primary source has actually said instead of reading non-objective secondary sources that often quote things out of context, but if you don't want to, then if anyone read books by Rob Bowman. I"m assuming you haven't already. He's one of the leading contenders against the BELIEFS of Jehovah's Witnesses. Bowman totally disagrees with what we believe, but he's sharp, respectful, and honest about what he writes (though I feel his logic is a bit juvenile). If you insist on reading stuff against JW's read him. My friends have met and spoken with him actually and have favorable impressions. You can look him up on Amazon.

1

How should one go about research?

by wasistdas in

this is a discussion i am starting for the purpose of continuing a discussion with spider, out of respect for another viewer i am starting a new board.

i don't commit much time to this i have way bigger fish to fry but so far spider has said some things i care about answering.

if one viewing this topic is intending to respond, he or she should read my comments in "interfaith relationship" to have an idea on what i do and do not choose to respond to, and upon what basis.

wasistdas

This is a discussion I am starting for the purpose of continuing a discussion with Spider, out of respect for another viewer I am starting a new board. I don't commit much time to this I have way bigger fish to fry but so far spider has said some things I care about answering. If one viewing this topic is intending to respond, he or she should read my comments in "interfaith relationship" to have an idea on what I do and do not choose to respond to, and upon what basis.

Ok so Spider I responded to your last comment that you articulated on further after your posting. Before I can respond to any of our issues, I need to explain in more detail my decisions regarding what I decide to consult. I have made much mention of my classes in college as related to my religious research. This is because the principles I have learned in my studies of science and English, etc, have reinforced what I concluded by myself back in my late teenage years. Now, when I write a research paper for English (I have another one due soon incidently), the professors always hammer into our heads what kind of research we should be doing. MUCH attention is given to the credibility of the source. We are, for example, encouraged to consult scholarly journals versus periodicals like "Rolling Stone" or "Vanity Fair". ANd I'll tell you, my current professor is extremely consciencious about checking to make sure we are using good sources. If I was to "BS" my way through my upcoming paper, and carelessly choose my sources, I would get a big fat "F". What I am getting to is that my emphasis on carfully choosing sources is precedented. I've explained already how that relates to my not reading apostate literature. i"ll have to get back to you later i gotta run.

66

Interfaith Relationship

by Christina77 in

i am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).

the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.

this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.

wasistdas

Christina, you are right, there's a lot of stuff we have been discussing that doesn't have much relevance to your situation. Let's get back to that. Maybe spider we can form another board.

66

Interfaith Relationship

by Christina77 in

i am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).

the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.

this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.

wasistdas

I seem to have more time on my hands today. Thanks for your response Spider. Today I listened to something very interesting. There was some guy on the Apologetic christain station doing an interview with Greg Stafford, a Jehovah's Witness. They were discussing the deity of Jesus. I will leave it to you to find out who that is, if you dont know. (hint: he has his own websites) What I found was that the interviewer was not really interested in producing his logic and then moving on, as was Stafford. He kept going back to the same simplistic logic that Stafford had disproven, and moreover, his sole intention was not enlightenment into the beliefs of others as he said in the introduction of his show, but to put Witnesses in a bad light. That pretty much spoke everything for me. So I hope that is not your intention as well. You might have noticed I ignored the mudslinging of Six o nine (?) and picked out the true issue, as I will do with you should you resort to such. Ok then. What I"ve been focusing on lately is a lot of CORE technical doctrinal issues, not so much social accusations like "the brooklyn people are bad" or "some witnesses are hypocrites". (About hollywood and movies, yeah like that ER episode, well, thats pretty easy material, you know thats what TV and HOllywood look for. The more drama the better.) What I believe more than anything is that there is a God and he cares about me. We probably agree on that. What we don't agree on is the nature of God, have I spoken correctly? Now lets say that sometime in the future in my studies I will have found that the New World Translation is grammatically, contextually, and linguistically unsound, and that therefore defeats our doctrinal use of it. Well, as a side point, this reminds of the fact that the NWT was not published until about the mid-20th century, and C.T. Russell and his associates started publishing the watchtower in the late 19th century. Before, during, and after the making of the NWT, our viewpoints were refined. But, carrying on. I would have to investigate my finding further and make an appropriate decision. NOw, on the flip side, lets say I were to find the NWT correct grammatically, linguistically and in context, but found that the organizatoin of Jehovah's Witnesses did not represent it accordingly. Well, again, I would have to do the same thing. So far, I have done neither, and don't expect to. Does that answer your question? In fact, spider, yes, I have thought several times, "what if this istn' the truth?" Well, my thought process didn't stop right there. I remembered my past experiences and discussions, and knowledge I had taken in. ANd moreover, my answer to that question, was not in effect an "answer" (I mean, a piece of meaningful language) but rather a course of action. I read again our literature and talked with others with a critical searching eye. When a questoin comes in my head, as they occasionally do, I dig myself into books. ONe day, in the library, i wanted to look up the cross. So, i looked it up in an encyclopedia on religion and found many things about the origin and use of the cross, and different types of crosses. It therefore occured to me that it was not unlikely that 2cd and 3rd century "christians" adapted a widespread symbol to their faith so as to make it acceptable to surrounding nations. Spider, about reading apostate stuff, I would rather consult neutral academic sources that don't have a chip on their shoulder. Did you know though, that in the library of hte research and writing center at the world headquarters in New York, they have an entire section of apostate literature for reference? ok i'm dead tired.

Ps. Everything that isn't dead fact is a point of view..anti-semitism is a point of view...Al Queda propoghanda is a point of view...Osama bin laden HAS a point of view..not to be offensive but just because something is a "point of view" does not mean it should be consulted as a credible source.

66

Interfaith Relationship

by Christina77 in

i am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).

the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.

this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.

wasistdas

Whoa, people, I'm sorry, that was way too long

66

Interfaith Relationship

by Christina77 in

i am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).

the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.

this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.

wasistdas

OK Six of Nine. Truth then. YOu must be familiar with the fact that Witnesses refer to their faith as "the truth". What then is the truth we are talking about? I looked the word up in the Cambridge dictionary and I found 2 basic uses. 1, it can be used as "the quality of being true." So, one uses the word to judge a particular thing by as a quality. What Jehovah's Witnesses teach, for instance. Truth or not. The second way the word is used is "The truth is the real facts about a situation, event or person." I find the second definition more relevant. We need to make sure we know what situatoin exactly we are dealing with. You, are dealing with the issue truth on the level of "the truth about Jehovah's Witnesses." I, however, choose to approach the issue of "the truth about God and of the Universe". This has led me to choose the faith of my parents versus what other people have presented me. I mean, this won't stop me from listening to other people. Search for truth I believe involves the looking for of a solution, and once one satisfactory has been found, the subsequent verification of it. I'm at the verificatoin stage. So far, digging into criticism has only made my faith stronger. So, Six, we are dealing at different levels I guess. I am not looking at truth as applied to a particular organization, but as to the world and why we are here, and what I should be doing. This has LED me to being one of Jehovahs' Witnesses. I am though concerning myself with the issue you are more focused on, but it does not take priority. I am approaching the search of truth I guess with a form of "scientific method." First, one has a question. There is a need. Who created things? Who is God? Second, one goes through possible solutions. One picks a hypothesis and does tests to prove it. If it is found faulty, one goes back to step 2, and so on and so on. Evolutionists realize their theory has too many holes to be truth, but have rejected the idea of God without having a solution. They are not using scientific method. Well maybe it is good enough for them. But if I were a scientist (i might be in fact, a linguist) it would not be good enough for me. Six, I can't begrudge you if you honestly feel differently about it, but perhaps you can now understand my approach and why I hold fast to it. Maybe can we agree to disagree and move on? But I think maybe this difference will prevent it.
Ok moving on, Man I just love it when people put words in my mouth. PLease allow me my measure of sarcasm. And I really love it when they seem to know so much about me like they have bugged my house and my car and my job to know that in reality, I do not do "research". ok as far as the bible goes, I'll have everyone know in perfect confidence of my lack of arrogance, that I am learning Hebrew, and when i have more time, next I will learn Greek. So I plan to be able to actually read the manuscripts and decide for myself. Now I am super into language, that is my passion so I don't criticize others who just arent. But not only will i be able to translate words, but meaning as well. I'm studying linguistics, which takes into account that language goes so far beyond literal translatoin of words. I mean look at idioms.."you're pulling my leg" or "on hand". YOu have to know the cultural and social context to understand those american idioms. I'm sure I"m not alone in the study of the hebrew and greek languages on this discussion board. So, don't tell me I'm not doing research though, because what kind of research is THAT when one learns and entire LANGUAGE?? just so he or she can be sure of his or her beliefs??!! But, if you insist, you know, think what you like.

66

Interfaith Relationship

by Christina77 in

i am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).

the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.

this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.

wasistdas

Hi, this is Regina, "whatsthisabout?" I lost my password so dang it i had to register again. Anyway. OK I just have to say something about this video thing. I respect your feelings spider and I dont want to come accross like I'm attacking anyone for the sake of it, but here it is. I mean I don't know you, but you strike me as someone I might meet in one of my classes and end up talking to all the time, not even knowing what each other's religion was. Who knows, maybe maybe not. There are a couple pretty intellectual people on here. By that, I don't mean "comes up with good comebacks". I dont know though lets see how it pans out. Maybe this is a small point but what we've talked about in my English class just can't let me avoid it. The idea of watching videos by the Watchtower society makes you cringe or whatever it was? Well, its not the fact that you feel that way, I mean if you do, you do. But good lord, come on... ANd HOllywood DOESN'T? You actually seem like you would be turned off by Hollywood. I've seen so many videos and read so much stuff about big corporations, and industry, that I do'nt even like going to the movies anymore. I mean, if we're talking about people who want to control minds, goodness gracious lets look at corporate America!!! How many of you go out and buy something that you've seen on a commercial or in a magazine? How many teenagers do you think see romantic Julia Roberts or Drew Barrymore movies, or all those teeny-bopper flicks, come away from the movie feeling like they're life does'nt fit what was portrayed in the movie as the way their little lives should be?? So then they go out and dress like Sarah Michelle Gellar because they think it will change something. INdustry only sees people as consumers. But yet, most of us are entertained by what it produces. So, if one is going to react negatively to videos produced by witnesses, how much more strongly should he or she feel so about those done by Corporate America?! Going away from my classes I always feel like "Dang it, I have to DEFY THE SYSTEM! I WILL NOT BUY IN!!" INterestingly enough, I never feel that way when people talk about my religion, though I don't believe I would view it that differently. I don't feel like I'm part of a big mind controlling scheme I gotta learn the "truth" about and break free from. I"M pretty sensitive about that kind of thing as well.