Posts by villagegirl

15

Ray Franz repeat?

by zound in

if one of the current governing body members pulled a ray franz and stepped down/got disfellowshipped then either wrote an expose or something else to go against the watchtower society - would they be forgiven and accepted by the ex-jw community?.

considering they have ray's example behind them i find it more deplorable that they continue in their paths, and personally would find it hard, though not impossible to forgive them - but am interested in everyones opinion....

villagegirl

Ray Franz was in the same "TRANCE" all 'true faithful WT believers are in;

a TRANCE. He was blind. Then he could see. Think about the apostle Paul.

Read the account again. Paul was KILLING Christians, he was completely

blinded. It took a supernatural act; of actually KNOCKING HIM OFF HIS HORSE,

and striking him BLIND, before he could see

that what he was doing was WRONG. Many have had a powerful epiphany

(and many have had such an epiphany), were we experienced a sudden

pulling away the "veil" a sudden realization, a sudden awakening

accompanied by a strong moment of sudden insight

and sense of the presence of the divine and then we "SEE"

Blind and then we see.

I think someone wrote a famous hymn about it.

234

Suicide - How many do you know within the JWs

by Lady Lee in

thw wts likes to play games with their statistics.

one interesting but truly tragic is the number of jwhovah's witnesses who commit suicie.. now i suspect that if a person commits suicide shortly before or after they are disfellowshipped then the elders would say that person wasn't a witness or that they had done something so terrible that they were too guilty to admit it and by their action of committing suicide they pretty much declared they were no longer a jw.. yup fancy talk to make sure any crap didn't fall on them.. so my question.. do you know of cases like this?

if so then can you answer a few more questions.. had this person been dfed or in real danger of being dfed or whatever the equivalent is if they were never baptized?.

villagegirl

Oh my God - roosterMcdooster - I am so sorry to hear this - it must have been so

hard for her children and all who loved her. Be assured God has not forgotten her.

She will live again and who knows, its God's choice, she could have already been

resurrected and is living in a wonderful spiritual body, in another dimension.

And for all the scoffers who think they are so "scientific" any physicist will tell you

all energy and matter which includes us, can never be destroyed, it only changes

form, and physicists also have mathematical proof there are other dimensions,

that are as real as this one and that we cannot see, because of our limited perceptions.

The WT is not the answer to any of these mysteries of life and death and life after death.

21

I don't have a good title, just read it

by Honeybucket in

jw
friends

last night my husband and i watched a special on the history channel about the knights templar.

about two weeks before i showed my husband the 607/587 blunder.

first off, he didn't even know that 607 was relevant to jw teachings.

villagegirl

The Knights Templar in 587 BC ??? Before Christ ?

thats 587 years before the birth of Christ ??

You want to re-think this ?

Knights were post-Roman, Western, Catholic Church.

Knights Templar originated around 1119 AD thats

a thousand years after Christ. AD (Anno Domini)

Kinghts Templar were associated with the Crusades,

and formed to protect pilgrims travelling to Jerusalem

on a Crusade to take back Jersulaem from the

Muslims. Muslims did not exist until after Muhammad,

prophet of Islam, their leader, who was not born until 570 AD

and died in 632 AD. Muhammad had an army, when

he died this army invaded and took over mostly all

of North Africa, the Middle East, Holy Lands, and Europe,

after 300 years of occupation, the Europeans started the

Crusades in 1096 AD to take back their lands starting

with their Holy place Jerusalem.

The Knights Templar came out of this movement.

So to say the Kights were excavating pre-Christian times

is just bad history. They may have excavated the ruins in

Jerusalem that are there now.

A Muslim Mosque sits on the Temple Mound of the

ancient Jewish temple of Solomon, destroyed by the Romans.

The Jews excavate to this day, under the mound and

worship at the Western Wall, the Wailing Wall.

32

More failed JW chronology

by Jeffro in

ive just been reviewing my timeline of the divided jewish monarchy and the neo-babylonian period.

i decided to check for correlations of egyptian and assyrian rulers mentioned in the bible that i had not previously considered at all (much less tried to make fit a particular year).

i was happy (though unsurprised) that no adjustments were required.. pharaoh tirhakah (taharqa) (2ki 19:8, 9; isa 37:8, 9) insight (volume 2, page 1109) claims the years assigned to him by historians must be wrong.

villagegirl

Jeffro

I agree - when I see a lars post I usually skip the thread

there should be some LIMIT to the number of words

Or a feature like on FB that displays a set number of words and

then an option : .....more if you want to see the rest of the post

I am sick of the thousands of words, and mini novels of lars and the

extremely long Watchtower magazine "quotes" from blondie

that take up my entire screen, and I have a 27" iMac

25

I am confused by the "reserrection" doctrine. Who will be raised first Old testament people or people who die right before Armaggeddon?

by booker-t in

i have always wondered who will be raised first people such as noah, job, enoch, etc; or people who die right before armaggeddon?

if noah, job, are raised first would not they be terrified with all of the modern inventions they will see such as cars, airplanes, clothes, watches, tvs, radios, and all of the modern technologies.

also, if people lived to 900 years back then would not methusalan be shocked if a person raised tells him they were only 20 years old when they died?

villagegirl

Stealth- You "know" the answer ???

You mean; you read what the Watchtower wrote and you believe

the Watchtower to be the;

"sole channel of communication between mankind and God" ??

So that means all the chronologies of the Watchtower

you believe as well and "know" to be true?

And you believe that through the Watchtower you have

"special knowledge" that "protects" you ??

I suggest , read the Bible and you say "thanks but no thanks" ??

Do you really think the WT knows in what "order the dead will be raised" ???

Really ?? And you know the answer ? Because of the Watchtower ?

And when the Watchtower changes the order of the resurrection

of the dead will Jehovah then obey the Watchtower ??

NO Stealth, you do not know the answer and neither does the WT.

All we need to know is that there is hope of life after death.

Plotting out precise timetables for resurrections is for arrogant fools.

25

I am confused by the "reserrection" doctrine. Who will be raised first Old testament people or people who die right before Armaggeddon?

by booker-t in

i have always wondered who will be raised first people such as noah, job, enoch, etc; or people who die right before armaggeddon?

if noah, job, are raised first would not they be terrified with all of the modern inventions they will see such as cars, airplanes, clothes, watches, tvs, radios, and all of the modern technologies.

also, if people lived to 900 years back then would not methusalan be shocked if a person raised tells him they were only 20 years old when they died?

villagegirl

Stealth: I would suggest getting a really comprehensive concordance

and looking up the word resurrection and read all the biblical

references sited where the word appears in the bible.

There are also many scriptures where there is descriptions of death,

and rebirth, putting on a new body, tranference, resurrection of the dead

to be judged according to their deeds, immortality,

all searchable in Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

This 'put down' of any thinking outside the box,

like you want to imply I have my "own doctrines,"

is a way to invalidate my suggestion that there are many other

sources to go to, besides the Wachtower.

This forum is not WT approved my friend, it is considered an

Apostate/forbidden place, or didn't you know ???

The attempt to dismiss real Bible scholars who

actually read the scriptures in the original languages

and debate their meaning and have written the commentaries

I cited as, not appropriate here, is exactly what the WT does to

spiritually abuse people. Its OK to read the Bible and consider

what it says and discuss it openly, without being called crazy.

" Come let us reason together " isn't that what the Bible encourages?

The Bible was written for mere humans. No WT needed to understand it.

4

new church, new feelings

by Honeybucket in

recently i have been going to a new church called christ the king.

it's not a megachurch but smaller size.

it's not in a typical church, rather they worship in a warehouse.

villagegirl

Well - hmmm- yeah- been there- went to lots of churches

to see what they had to say after the

COC and awakening to the the WT cult.

Many churches have similar issues as the WT.

Some have very definitive doctrines, others leave it to your

own personal journey and relationship to

God and Christ as a private path.

Its the shared feelings of love and support that are important.

If you feel relaxed and at home and supported and not judged,

and you can sense a spiritual feeling being shared in love,

then its all good. Its a new journey.

You learn as you go.

25

I am confused by the "reserrection" doctrine. Who will be raised first Old testament people or people who die right before Armaggeddon?

by booker-t in

i have always wondered who will be raised first people such as noah, job, enoch, etc; or people who die right before armaggeddon?

if noah, job, are raised first would not they be terrified with all of the modern inventions they will see such as cars, airplanes, clothes, watches, tvs, radios, and all of the modern technologies.

also, if people lived to 900 years back then would not methusalan be shocked if a person raised tells him they were only 20 years old when they died?

villagegirl

Stealth- re-read booker-t's question

- NO-where does Booker-T say in the original question

"Tell me what the Watchtower says about about the resurrection"

The Blondie begins by saying: " In general the WTS teaches....

" Who asked what the WT teaches???

Why assume the WT teaching has any validity, or is even biblical.???

The WT teachings are all about supporting the WTS

as the "sole channel of communication" which they are NOT.

Is this forum restricted to WT teachings ?? How about other teachings?

I thought it was open to thinking, to critical analysis.

The WT prohibits "independent thinking"

No "personal opinions", no other references except WT ???

In the WTS 'Opinions' are thought of as something that can damage "truth"

That is nonsense. What about; just what the Bible says,

without consulting the WT ?? At all !!!

Why is the WT supposed to bring 'clarity' to any biblical question ??

I am not against Blondie, I simply invite her to read some other references,

Strong's Concordance ?

Jewish commentaries on the Bible? The International Critical Commentary ??

The Christian Classics Ethereal Library ?

Henry Matthew's Commentary on the Whole Bible ?

A Concise History of the Church; Apostolic Era to the Reformation, by Alfred E knight ?

If I did not respect Blondie, I would not debate her at all.

25

I am confused by the "reserrection" doctrine. Who will be raised first Old testament people or people who die right before Armaggeddon?

by booker-t in

i have always wondered who will be raised first people such as noah, job, enoch, etc; or people who die right before armaggeddon?

if noah, job, are raised first would not they be terrified with all of the modern inventions they will see such as cars, airplanes, clothes, watches, tvs, radios, and all of the modern technologies.

also, if people lived to 900 years back then would not methusalan be shocked if a person raised tells him they were only 20 years old when they died?

villagegirl

Blondie - As well intentioned as it may be, to "hang them with their own words";

this does not seem to be the effect a quote from

the WT seems to produce, in this audience.

You can see by the responses that the members

here, take the WT to be a sort of "holy source"

and the only 'challegers' tend to be atheists who discredit

themselves by the fact they are atheists

The WT for the JW is reference they do not want to "go beyond".

What you are really doing is acting as an apologist

Because you always use the same source and it is

the source that is flawed.

You are the go-to person to use the Watchtower and try

to 'clarify their doctrines' using their own literature as an authority.

This is CIRCULAR REASONING that always ends up at the same source.

The WT is an expert in circular reasoning.

They start from a false premise and prove their position

using the false premise. You claim to be a "purist" because

as you say "I am not here to teach my personal opinion" ????

But to "help jws and ex jws know what the WTS teaches" ??

But this is not true, you often criticisize what you have qouted.

THAT is using your "personal opinion". Which is great, except you stop

at bringing in any other source except the WT.

And the sense you leave is it is "we" the "insiders" are indeed the

only ones who have "special knowledge" and where do "we"

get this special knowledge ? From the Watchtower, because

that is the sole source you refer to. How about considering other sources,

on the same subjects ? Or just scriptures ?

You are still following the WT "Taboo" ;

which is , do not think for yourself,

do not read any other literature,

do not look into other explanations, do not

"go beyond", what is written in the Watchtower publications.

The reference by the way the WT uses about "do not go beyond",

is from the Bible, and it refers to not going beyond scripture.

25

I am confused by the "reserrection" doctrine. Who will be raised first Old testament people or people who die right before Armaggeddon?

by booker-t in

i have always wondered who will be raised first people such as noah, job, enoch, etc; or people who die right before armaggeddon?

if noah, job, are raised first would not they be terrified with all of the modern inventions they will see such as cars, airplanes, clothes, watches, tvs, radios, and all of the modern technologies.

also, if people lived to 900 years back then would not methusalan be shocked if a person raised tells him they were only 20 years old when they died?

villagegirl

Why quote the Watchtower ?

The Watchtower does NOT have any insight into

the mind of jehovah or the will of God; they do not teach

the truths that are in the Bible, or the hope that Jesus

speaks about, so why quote the Watchtower???

The Watchtower is written by the governing body and their slaves

who have been proven over and over and over to

be False Prophets, The doctrines of the WT are copy-cat from

the Millerites and the Adventists. The Bible does not support the WT version

of what they think the "faithful and disvreet slave" are.

Its not about who is in charge and there is NO groups of MEN

who are "the sole channel of communication between God and mankind"

That 'sole channel' doctrine is blasphemy, becuase it places the governing

body in the position of Mediator, and that is the position occupied

by Jesus Christ, the ONE mediator.

The "timelines" the "what order will things occur",

"before or after Armageddon", discussions are absurd,

useles speculations over words.

The Watchtower took all its timelines from

the Plan of the Ages developed by Miller and Adventists.

Every time prediction the WT made was wrong for 100 years.

These are geneologies and meaningless,

so why quote the Watchtower ???