Searcher, you mentioned "freedom to choose for themselves." No earthly organization, or individual, can take away someone's freedom to choose for themselves, even if some people try. Some Witness parents may make it difficult when a child decides to leave, but remember you cannot even be considered a JEHOVAH'S WITNESS until you show you know what you are getting into. Baptismal candidates are occasionally turned down. Holding members accountable for their actions does not take away their freedom of choice. Now, if you are talking about freedom of choice WITHOUT accountability, THEN we have a different matter on our hands.
whatsthisabout
JoinedPosts by whatsthisabout
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28
Some Antis are just as bad as JW's
by DIM inspecifically i am talking about the "apostates" or antis who plaster cars or send people things in the mail with the truth about "the truth".
to me, this seems exactly like the jw's banging on doors on a saturday morning.
exactly the same thing, just from the other end.
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28
Some Antis are just as bad as JW's
by DIM inspecifically i am talking about the "apostates" or antis who plaster cars or send people things in the mail with the truth about "the truth".
to me, this seems exactly like the jw's banging on doors on a saturday morning.
exactly the same thing, just from the other end.
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whatsthisabout
gsx...I never laugh at picketers...and I dont know any witnesses who see much if any humor value in it. Of course it doesn't bring down a happy day at the annual convention. Sorry but that sounds like something that typical and common group of young guys I see walking around Gate F (Qualcomm Stadium), paying more attention to the skirts than to the program.
Spend your summer afternoon surfing! Of if you dont live by the ocean, skating, bike-riding, your choice. Talk to those who care. Everyone here is right about 99 out of 100 Witnesses never taking you seriously.
Not all those who argue with Witnesses are "anti-witness"...an obvious point but maybe worth repeating. Rob Bowman isn't anti witness in fact he's pretty respectful and genuinely civil towards Witnesses. He just debates doctrine.
Knowing something about the obvious semantics of English, I still wonder how people can just throw the word "cult" around without qualifying it. Anything can correctly be called a cult. It's just easier to call JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES a cult (repeat, a meaningless and ambiguous word) than prove them wrong biblically (though some thankfully, have taken up that task).
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JW's okay blood transfusions???
by deddaisy inthe vancouver sun .
june 14, 2000, wednesday, final .
religion.
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whatsthisabout
IT is very doubtful that this NEWSPAPER ARTICLE, a secondary source of all secondary sources, has its facts straight. If one looks on the latest Power of Attorney form, on the back page I believe one can see exactly what the Witness stance is on the blood issue. A witness will not accept whole blood. Nor will a witness accept the 4 definitive components of blood which are red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, and plasma. This is because these components cannot be found anywhere else in the body, and therefore defines and constitutes blood. Now, there are other components of blood, like water, and protein, which are not distinctly and characteristically, and EXCLUSIVELY "blood" because they are building blocks that can be found in other parts of the body. I believe the logic in this is clear. The Power of Attorney form has checked boxes allowing the witness to choose which he or she feels is appropriate. Maybe this is old news for all yall, but with that article, it doesn't seem like it. I dont know whether a person willingly going against these standards will immediately be disfellowshipped, but if it is certain that they HAVE gone against these clear standards of whole blood and the 4 main parts, judicial action of some kind will be taken, as is proper.
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Greg Stafford's New Book Has Shipped
by AlanF intoday i received greg stafford's new book three dissertations on the teachings of jehovah's witnesses.
for those who don't know, stafford has been a staunch defender of the watchtower society's teachings for at least six years, on the net and in print.
his previous book, jehovah's witnesses defended (1998, 2000), is a milestone in pro-jw literature.. the new book is a radical departure from stafford's previous book in that he strongly questions the society's doctrines about blood transfusions, the basis for the claim of spiritual authority by jw leaders, the necessity for christians to believe the society's 1914 doctrine, and issues of "legalism" including the propriety of requiring "time" in the field ministry to be reported, and even the supposed scriptural basis for the society's ban on celebrating birthdays and christmas.
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whatsthisabout
An opinion coming from a witness. Greg's a smart guy but he is slipping. And by that I dont mean "from the organization". I mean that his new book is not up to par with his normal standard of scholasticism, from what I"ve read and heard, though i have not yet recieved his book. Greg got caught up in emotion and just decided to rant. And when one does that, it is not methodical. IT would have been one thing if he had really deliberated longer. But he stopped a project 60% complete, so I have heard, and suddenly took up on these disssertations, which are far more fallible arguments than he usually does. IT seems as though his arguments leave no holes, but this book does. But his most recent issues leave factors out. He seems to have tunnel vision. I have never met Greg, i know him second hand. I've admired him in some ways, but I have also disliked his style. I"ve admired him because i like smart people who know what they are talking about, be they witnesses or someone else. But I dont like arrogance, and I have detected that even in the writings I totally agree with. I"m not surprised about this new book at all. I thought maybe something of the sort would come up. I"ve read a lot of his postings...and its cool if someone carries on a debate...but his dry sarcasm is unbecoming. In so many unneeded words, he is basically telling people "Hello whats wrong with you has your brain taken a vacation". Even if someone has quoted you out of context, or just doesn't have the diplomatic or scholarly skills that you have, there is no reason to stoop to tinting your dialogue with a condescending attitude. I feel much of what he goes into forever and ever and ever is much like a soliloquy, one that reveals more than the speaker intends. His content is right on, his attitude is not. Perhaps some of you know what I'm talking about. Now maybe thats forgiveable if he vindicates God's name in a proper manner. But i'm not even sure he's doing that.
Anyway. This message board is definatly interesting, and definately not theological. And though doing so would not indicate a right heart attitude, i find it even more interesting that i haven't seen hardly anyone quote the bible. Only the watchtower. I'd venture to say many of you know much more about what's in the Watchtower than I do, and probably much less about whats in the Bible. -
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Interfaith Relationship
by Christina77 ini am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).
the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.
this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.
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whatsthisabout
You know that old saying, the more you know, the more you know nothing? Knowledge should make people humble. Not always true, but many times. I work in a library as an English tutor(very convenient) and my workmates and fellow students have learned enough to realize that they may be smart, but they're not smart enough to justify looking down their nose at anyone else. We argue religious things and yet show each other respect. We may not believe the same thing, but they have shown courtesy to me because of my beliefs, and I am glad to do likewise. Friends have explained to me the trinity, buddhism, whatever, and it didn't click with me, but I respect these people because THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER. They have their own beliefs that they can present to others and prove and defend. There are people out there though who would HAVE NO RELIGION if it weren't for other religions. If it weren't for their bashing other faiths such as mine, the jewish faith, and others, they would have nothing to say. I mean, its almost funny sometimes, people say we don't believe in Christ, we don't believe in free will, we made friends with hitler, (if we did, it didn't help us very much, we were in the camps too), we are communists... we're vampires that seek to steal your children who knows what else. Reminds me of anti-semitic propoganda. political campaigning. Some politician's commercials are like "Billy Williams is a jerk off he did this and this and a can of tomatoes, and moreover, he doesn't like Elvis Presley!" Mud-slinging. If people generally look down on mud-slinging campaigns, as most people do, why is it right for religions to do it?? You'd think they should set a better example. The worst part about mudslinging is that it attracts more attention, yet is not any more credible. And you hear people debating politics, those people who only criticize the status quo are criticized even more so in return for not having a solution to present! If I were to not become one of Jehovahs' Witnesses anymore, the religion I would look for would among other things 1)be carrying out Christ commission to make disciples 2)manifest love among themselves 3) encourage a peaceful attitude. Now, no one on this discussion board has offered anything like that. So far I've just seen a bunch of mudslinging. I have yet to see anyone present any alternative of theirs.
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Interfaith Relationship
by Christina77 ini am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).
the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.
this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.
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whatsthisabout
Larc, he could be taking the easy way out, treating her as a "whore" as the case may be..I dont know. But anyone can do that regardless of their religion. That has nothing to do with his having been a witness. In fact, if he had been a real Jehovah's Witnesses, he would not have done it in the first place! Christina, if his parents are like most Witness parents I know...they are probably having more sympathy for you on account of their son than anything. There might be some hard feelings, they might consider you the source of their troubles. Parents have a tendency to not be logical when it comes to their children. But most likely, not, they probably realize it is their son that has caused all these problems. If you have the chance to talk to them, they might be able to shed more light on this than anyone.
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Interfaith Relationship
by Christina77 ini am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).
the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.
this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.
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whatsthisabout
well here I am again. Suprisingly i got some honest responses. As long as I am not arguing with opposers I'll talk with reasonable inquiring minds. Ok there was question from Christina I missed: have any Witness that married an unbeliever Not been disfellowshipped? The answer is yes, many!! I know quite a few personally. Christina, the reason why most people get disfellowshipped is because they have sex outside marraige! Now if a person marries an unbeliever, but follows god's laws as far as morality, he or she will not be disfellowshipped. Christ advised his followers not to become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. A religiously divided household, as you have already experienced, is tough. Those around them are often hurt, and try to help them see why it creates difficulty, but the LAST thing family and friends want is for the person to voluntarily leave the congregatoin! (which is the option of some). And its not only witnesses who have sex with unbelievers that can get disfellowshipped. Witnesses that have sex with other witnesses outside marraige are disfellowshipped as well! In fact, that happens more often. No discrimination is shown. Now, about this disfellowshipping, it happens when a sinner is UNREPENTANT. There are many people, in fact most of us since we are all imperfect, that have sinned yet not been expelled from teh congregation, because they have shown a truly repentant attitude. But a deliberate unrepentant sinner MUST be expelled from the congregation, because we as christians must not condone activity that goes against God's laws, or we are guilty ourselves. A comment about Free Will...if you want information about the fire department, do you go to the police station? No, you go to the fire department! Free will is one of hte most important things Jehovah's Witnesses teach! People become witnesses of their own free will, and they are free to either continue following God's laws, and they are free not to. And moreover, they are aware of the rewards and consequences of both.
About this guy. Yes, it is always a great joy when people claim to be Witnesses yet to not follow their standards (sarcasm intended). Its a pain actually. This person has broken many bible standards, Christina. PLease do not think he represents Jehovah's Witnesses accurately. For one, he has unevenly yoked himself with an unbeliever, which has caused difficulty for himself, family, and the person he is involved with. Two, he has committed immorality, which he knows is against the standards of the religion he has been ascribing to. And finally and worst of all, he has been completely dishonest with the person and hidden his faith from her! God hates dishonesty. Now, if this guy is making serious efforts to reestablish his relationship with God and the congregation, his conscience is going to give him a heck of a hard time with all this, you better believe! I am sorry someone claiming to be a Witness has caused you pain, but I am not ashamed because this person has not followed God's standards, and does not represent those that do. Larc, the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses welcomes those who sincerely want to live by God's standards, but it does not tolerate those who want the "best of both worlds". This guy cannot do one thing and say another, and be considered an official member of the congregation. It will not be allowed. Do you get my drift? I mean if he hides things..it will only be a matter of time! STuff is often hidden, and causes trouble like this...but once it comes out, disciplinary action is taken. -
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Interfaith Relationship
by Christina77 ini am currently involved in a relationship for the last year and a half with a man that i found out about 2 months ago is a jehovahs witness (and i am catholic).
the only reason why i found this out, was that i was pushing the issue as to why his parents do not know that i exist.
this really irritated me since he has a very close relationship with his parents.
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whatsthisabout
I'm not exactly sure why I'm here...but then I doubt any of you have a better reason anyway. Christina, you sound like an honest straight-forward person that is not dealing with someone that is honest and straight forward, whether or not he is of the same religion as me or not. (incidently, i am a "cult" member apparently, aside of the fact that we are a legal organization with 6 million voluntary members worldwide...) No matter what denomination of christian a person is, he or she is no better than to the extent which they follow bible principles. This guy of yours...got himself in a sticky mess a long time ago, and compounded it and just made it all worse. but aside from your romantic troubles, i feel you should have the chance to do some true research about Jehovah's Witness from the source. Now, i'm not going to argue with any of these other people on here because for one, it is pointless, and two, it is pointless. (for emphasis) But if you want honest straight answwers, i will be happy to give them. You have expressed your religous standing, and I respect that. You came here because you had questions, and from your last comment, you have not gotten yoru answers. So feel free to email me at [email protected] A couple things I will say here though. Jehovah's Witnesses to not baptize babies. A person can only get baptized when he or she is able to make a conscious whole hearted decision as pertains his or her entire way of life. IN fact, not everyone can become one of Jehovah's Witnesses automatically. A "board" as you might say it, interviews the candidates to make sure they understand fully all that is required of them. No person can get baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses until they fully understand that they must follow bible principles such as those relating to relationships, and if they do not they will be removed from the congregation. This is expressly made known to the candidate. IN other words, if this guy of yours was baptized, he knew that he was not to have premarital sex, or he would be expelled. But my guess is, (i skipped a lot of hte messages so maybe I missed something) that he was raised as a Witness by his parents, but never dedicated himself and symbolized it by water baptism. I know many such people who have been associated with Jehovah's Witnesses yet not been entirely commited. The parents of such ones are completely torn. My brother and my dad were both expelled from the congregation for immorality, yet i keep in good contact with both of them, and they are making efforts to reestablish their relationship with the congregatoin. What you have to understand Christina, is that maybe we are way different from everyone, maybe you dont agree with everything, maybe a heck of a lot of people dont like us but just like any issue, you have the responsibility to find out all you can from EVERYONE, and look at the issue from all angles before you make a judgement. About the cult here...ha. I noticed one person said make no mistake it is a cult. Well, they know I certainly am not going to validate that, so they'd have to say that woudln't they? But dont take my word for it, don't take theirs. Do first hand research. Find out for yourself. And for goodness sake, this guy you are with is not qualified..he is way too mixed up to give you any good answers. So talk to the anti-Witnesses if you wish, talk to those indifferent, and talk to witnesses themselves, and see what YOU THINK is true. What I have been taught all my life as a Witness is to NEVER believe something just because someone says it. Do some fact digging. But make sure your source of facts is reliable. There are plenty of non-Witness sources which can give you statistical information. Encyclopedias. Go to your local library and see whats in the secular sources. Did you know that the first supreme court reversal came about by Jehovah's Witnesses? That was in the earlier part of the century. Could a "cult" (by definition, a relatively small group that follows a single individual) bring a case all the way to the supreme court? If you go to the library you will verify that. I will not come to this site again. You, Christina, are welcome to contact me via email.