Posts by willy

31

I NEED your advice!!!!! Please reply!

by worldly girl in

jw
friends

ok here's the deal..... i've not had much to do w/ my parents since jan '02 when my mother and i got into over her force feeding my 3 year old the "troof".

when i respectfully ask her on behalf of myself and my non jw husband, to respect us enough to let us teach our child about religion.... her response was "well if you don't want her around our religion, then don't bring her around us".

and during the course of this conversation she stated this in the most hateful of tones at least 4 or 5 times to both me and my husband, in front of our daughter.... well i was furious.... that she would say such a thing and openly chose to have nothing to w/ my daughter.. without being given an ultimatum<sp> to choose.

willy_think

Worldly girl,
I don't know what you should do. I would like to tell you that your mother is abusing you. she is manipulating the feelings of your family in order to gain access to your daughter whom she will then abuse emotionally and maybe allow other abuse as well. She will use her to gain back control of her son and with any luck you. I wish I've never seen it before, but I have and I'm seeing it right know. I believe your mother is a bad lady, a truly bad association.

119

To spank or not to spank?

by Nowhere in

i had a conversation with an active witness from the usa lately.

and when talking about child upbringing he stated that some children need a spank sometimes.

of course i was upset because of that, and i didn't thought witnesses was that stupid.

willy_think

hi, Larc

I remember when he was a toddler, he wanted to stick his fingers between the electrical outlet and the plug for the lamp cord. I think a slap on his hand with a firm "no" was better than him being electrocuted.

it would depend on timing if it was wile he was tucking it the kid would equate the outlet and plug with pain i believe it would be affective. but if you called him to you and waited till he got to you, it would likely loose it's effectiveness if i caught him in the act i would otherwise no i wouldn't.

he got in the habit of slapping his sisters. Nothing was getting to him

I'm probably the odd man out on this one, I'm not against siblings fighting each other, I'm against siblings not fighting for each other when one is in trouble i would tell the boy that hitting is fighting and when you fight you get hit, so hit only when you want to fight. i would ask the girls why they let him hit them? i would ask the one who was not hit why she let someone hit her sister? I'd tell them when there is no grownup there to protect you need to protect your self and each other. How many times do you think a kid will hit, if he gets beet down every time he does it? I know I'm horrible. you need to be really careful if you hit a little kid in the face, I wouldn't.

119

To spank or not to spank?

by Nowhere in

i had a conversation with an active witness from the usa lately.

and when talking about child upbringing he stated that some children need a spank sometimes.

of course i was upset because of that, and i didn't thought witnesses was that stupid.

willy_think

I remember when he was a toddler, he wanted to stick his fingers between the electrical outlet and the plug for the lamp cord. I think a slap on his hand with a firm "no" was better than him being electrocuted. [quote]
it would depend on timing if it was wile he was tucking it the kid would equate the outlet and plug with pain i believe it would be affective. but if you called him to you and waited till he got to you, it would likely loose it's effectiveness if i caught him in the act i would otherwise no i wouldn't.
[quote] he got in the habit of slapping his sisters. Nothing was getting to him

I'm probably the odd man out on this one, I'm not against siblings fighting each other, I'm against siblings not fighting for each other when one is in trouble i would tell the boy that hitting is fighting and when you fight you get hit, so hit only when you want to fight. i would ask the girls why they let him hit them? i would ask the one who was not hit why she let someone hit her sister? I'd tell them when there is no grownup there to protect you need to protect your self and each other. How many times do you think a kid will hit, if he gets beet down every time he does it? I know I'm horrible. you need to be really careful if you hit a little kid in the face, I wouldn't.

119

To spank or not to spank?

by Nowhere in

i had a conversation with an active witness from the usa lately.

and when talking about child upbringing he stated that some children need a spank sometimes.

of course i was upset because of that, and i didn't thought witnesses was that stupid.

willy_think

Personally I'm not against corporal punishment but if it comes to the point were you feal you must spank your kids to get them to do what you want, I believe they were not receiving the supervision they needed. I've seen people hit there kids for not being still or quiet. I don't know who is the bigger fool the parent of the one who tells them there kid should be still or quiet?

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

willy_think

Willy, you seem to be choosing your definitions and criteria in order to support your belief that abortion at any stage is wrong. Your main criterion seems to be that unique human DNA has human rights, but it doesn't necessarily have to be unique, and sometimes even if it is it doesn't count. It only seems to apply when referring to foetal tissue. Why is that?

Can you tell me which words definitions you have in mind?

Humans have human rights in some countries of the world. DNA has no rights, only an animal with human DNA has human rights. What I am saying over and over is you can DNA test an animal to find the species.
you can also test two samples to determine if they came form the same animal.
Do you disagree?

DNA test the mother and the fetus and you will find they are the same species but not the same animal.
Do you disagree?

It seems you might have gotten cot up in this "unique human DNA"
what I meant by "unique DNA" is DNA unlike the mothers.

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

willy_think

Funky,

So if the courts have decided abortion is OK, you agree?
No, I only agree that the court has the power to make the determination I don't agree with the decision, any more then I agreed with the decision to incarcerate all the Japanese Americans in the 40s.

And you define human life as anything having human DNA? Does a skin sample being kept alive in a petri dish after its host human is dead qualify? Is not, why not?

no skin sample in a dish would not qualify as human death any more then the skin you loose with a sun burn would, or even if a lost an arm or leg. but let us not say that skin in a dish can not die or is not alive. to kill part of a person is not considered killing under the law unless it leads to the breakdown of the bodies ability to feed it's curent cells and reproduce new living cells, which would not happen in the case you mentioned. I'm not saying that extraordinary measures need to be taken to protect all living human cells, only ordinary measures need to be taken to protect the human as a whole so he can keep producing cells.

If one lives he/she has not been killed, some times aborted babies live, let us not tell them it wasn't you that we tried to abort only a fetus. You magically appeared in the body later. sorry for all the damage kid. I just can't see it like that.

At the risk of being redundant here it is.
Things you can use DNA tests to find the truth about.

If there is a leg on the ground and you clam it is your leg and DNA tests show it is not your leg, I don't care what you say your lying the same holds true with any thing you clam as part of you.

DNA tests show a feuds is not a mutation of the mothers cells, like a cancer, but is a separate life form.

DNA tests can be used to determine the species of the sample. If the sample tested is human DNA, it cannot be something other then a human.

feuds questions answered by DNA tests:
is the feuds alive, yes
is it the mother, no
is it human, yes

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

willy_think

funkyderek

"the DNA of a human" is the ultimate determining factor in what makes someone a person with human rights

No, it's the courts that are the determining factor in what makes someone a person with human rights. What I meant is a life form with human DNA can be nothing other then a human, the condition or shape of the body is irrelevant.

As to how I define "the DNA of a human"? I didn't, but it has been defined.

Dander,

A live beaver has protection under the law, so does a cougar and even the bug mantis and yes people too have protection under the law, I never implied we should protect all life equally. I say we should protect all human life equally.

I don't know were you learned that "our being self-aware" "happens until nearly 30 weeks into a pregnancy, at best," it happens long after the baby is born.
If a sole is being self-aware we don't receive it until we stop disappearing when we cover our eyes playing peek-a-boo, maybe 2 years old.

You are starting to go over the edge.

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

willy_think

Hey, how about that. 80% of fertilized eggs (that meet your definition of 'alive' and 'human') die within the first six weeks of pregnancy. Wow - that's a lot of murders committed by 'god', huh?

100% of humans die, we can find charts to show the percentage rates of death at every age from conception on.
I don't know what God you have in mind, but I don't need to, to know life when I see it.
So it's your God who kills the sick, I knew there was someone to pin it on.

Myself, I agree with this. At some point (before birth) it DOES get a 'soul,' if you will -- when brain activity starts is probably the best spot to identify this event. This appears to occur (at the absolute soonest) around the 24th week. Maybe later.

It's not point of agreement it's the protection of law. I have no idea what a sole has to do with it, I have seen no evidence of a sole, there for a require no proof of a sole from a person before I consider him/her alive.

I don't believe brain waves are needed to be a person, brain damaged people are people all the same.

It's not about a God that may or may not be or a sole that may or may not be it's about life and death that are.

Edited by - willy_think on 12 August 2002 15:10:26

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

willy_think

Willy, do you think it's OK to kill someone who has an identical twin, or is unique DNA not the only criteria for what makes a human being?

No it's not OK to kill someone who has an identical twin. unique DNA is not the ONLY criteria. human DNA is the only criteria that makes someone a person and is used to tell one person from another. reason, hands, legs, heart or lungs, a human without any or all of these is a person and an animal with any or all of these it's not a man without the DNA of a human.

If you are to make the clam that the feuds (a collection of cells) is part of the mothers body (a collection of cells) then the feuds must be a collection of the MOTHERS cell, they are not.

The feuds is not the mother, DNA tests will not tell us who it's OK to kill they will tell us if the tested animal is a person and who his/her mother and farther is.

If the outcome of the test tells us the person tested is not the person claiming to be him/her, should we honor the false claims of that person?
NO of course not. In fact in the USA the ONLY time that claim is honored is in the case of abortion.

my only points are:

Tests show the feuds is NOT the mother.
Tests show the feuds is alive.
Tests show the feuds is human.

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

willy_think

Willy:

If you ask any cop what is absolute proof of a persons identity they will tell you a DNA test. Test the fetus (not to be confused with the old person, the middle-aged person, adult person young person, child, toddler, baby, infant, preemie) and you find that it's not the mother at all. DNA tests will not show age but they will show who the parents of the person being tested are without doubt. Cancer cells don't do that, cancer has no individually unique makeup and parentage, only a person does at every level of development.

Xander:

This is a stupid argument, and I think you know it is. Go ahead - TEST a cancer cell. Does it have the same DNA as the human host? Well, actually - NO! Or it wouldn't be cancerous, now would it? How about a cell infected with, say, the HIV virus. Is the DNA in the cell the exact same as the human host? Again - NO!

there are not stupid arguments only stupid people.
A Cancerous cell DNA is not the "exact same" as a healthy cell on the same person. But i NEVER said it was.
what I said is cancerous cells will not test positive as a unique person with a traceable lineage.

Test a human cancer and you will find a mutation of a persons healthy DNA.
Test a fetus and you will find a healthy persons DNA not the mother's not the dad's and not a mutation.

Would the person who is not a group of cells please stand up? No, no people like that here.

I mean, when talking about the woman here, we are talking about ONE single sentient human being, no?

killing a pregnant woman in MA is 2 life sentences. Why?

Why does the fact that a fetus - MIGHT - be born and become a human being (there really isn't any guarantee) - make it deserve special consideration?

It is a human being before it is born, even doctors can't kill them after a certain arbitrary age.

willy_think

Posts by willy_think