Actually, 11:55 here (eastern seaboard, USA) - but we have people posting from all over the world. I think there are even a couple posters from Poland - so they are even a few hours ahead of you, no?
Posts by Xander
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54NGO ? Please help!
by Bosho in.
i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
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54
NGO ? Please help!
by Bosho in.
i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
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Xander
that if WTBS isn't God's organisation then I won't believe in God anymore at all
Well, if you feel like going down that road any - check out 'The Jesus Mysteries' - a pretty good book. It's interesting to see how much of the 'gospel' accounts were nearly verbatim copies of MUCH EARLIER myths.
Also note that no details exist to prove Jesus even existed outside of the 'gospels' - and those weren't even STARTED until 30 years (IIRC) after Jesus is supposed to have died (back when the average lifespan wasn't much longer - so everyone who was old enough to confirm what the 'gospels' said were probably already dead).
It's also interesting to note that the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' which record in exacting detail the events of the world around the time supposed to be Jesus life & ministry (actually, far before and a little after) in the area Jesus was supposed to have been born, raised, and performed miracles in - somehow manages to not mention him AT ALL. Or, in fact, A SINGLE ONE OF HIS APOSTLES. Or, indeed, CHRISTIANITY AT ALL.
(As an aside - I know *exactly* what you are feeling. The shock of realizing you have been defending so vehemently for your ENTIRE life something that, it turns out, might not even be true - it's a little overwhelming.)
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NGO ? Please help!
by Bosho in.
i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
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Xander
Comments?
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65
Left Behind
by gravedancer inno that is not a description of a piece of rear-anatomy (i don't want to get booted again <g>).
rather it is the rage now.... please check out http://www.leftbehind.com/ and take a look.
the reason i bring this up is because 3 different people i know (not xjws) are all into this "stuff" now.
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Xander
The writing style is very elementary
Because of this, they made a 'graphic novel' series out of them (comic books) that I understand is actually quite high quality. Very basic dialog + simplistic writing + LOTS of action = great comic book material.
As I understand it, if you take the story as a work of fiction (as it obviously is), and read the comic series with a certain....ehhh...detachment?...they are fairly above average comics.
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Left Behind
by gravedancer inno that is not a description of a piece of rear-anatomy (i don't want to get booted again <g>).
rather it is the rage now.... please check out http://www.leftbehind.com/ and take a look.
the reason i bring this up is because 3 different people i know (not xjws) are all into this "stuff" now.
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Xander
Okay, I'm going to try and hijack this thread, because I seem to have found another 'true believer'.
Tell me borgfree (since no other 'true believer' on this board seems to be able to):
If 'god' exists, as you say, and is a 'loving god' - why did he create viruses and parasites? Again, not in the food chain, serve no good, only kill things. Why would a loving god create them?
Second (related) question: viruses cannot reproduce without killing living cells. Assuming 'god' DID create them for some holy reason, how did they survive the time period when everyone on earth was perfect? I mean, if our cells were somehow not vulnerable to smallpox, how could it reproduce? (rhetorical: it couldn't)
Third question: how do you explain that evolution can be observed to be happening? Viruses and many insects have been OBSERVED evolving from generation to generation. How can this be if evolution isn't a valid explanation for creation?
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42
U.A.D.N.A. question
by The_Bad_Seed in.
i know what it stands for, but who are the u.a.d.n.a., and what do they try to accomplish specifically, and why?
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Xander
OTOH, "Not all that is gold glitters"...
BTW, may I submit this as the official motto for the 'UADNAOFA' (UADNA 'Old Fogies Association'):
"God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
the good fortune to run into the ones I do,
and the eyesight to tell the difference." -
54
NGO ? Please help!
by Bosho in.
i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
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Xander
Specifically, the 'praise' was lobbied in the 'Watching the World' section, where no one seemed to notice.
You do recall all those positive little snippets 'How the UN is fighting disease in Africa' 'How the UN is working towards a peaceful solution in Godsonlyknowwhereistan' etc.
They didn't strike you as a little odd at the time, given the front page articles continuing to blast the UN as 'the wild beast of revalation'?
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54
NGO ? Please help!
by Bosho in.
i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
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Xander
He explained that when they joined, the NGo's charter held nothing that would violate their idea of scriptural principles. But then apparantly ten years later, the charter was changed and things were introduced that now would violate scriptural principles. So the WTBS got out when they could.
One of the sites here mentions a press release from the Department of Public Information (UN department that interfaces with the NGOs). In short, the policies of NGO membership have not changed since the UNs founding. I mean, really, why would it? Why would the UN allow businesses and religions to join if they DIDN'T share the UNs goals? What would be the point of having an NGO then?
He explained that to use the UN's arcives and databases pictures, etc, they had to join NGO.
That's not true. As has already been stated, anyone has access to the data. Indeed, what these folks have been doing above is telling ME how to get access (a lowly citizen of a member nation - nothing more!). The whole point of the UN is to create a unified world government - having secret libraries that only members have access to flies in the face of their charter.
The UN libraries are, and have always been, publicly available.
(When someone says 'the library card excuse' - this is what they are referring to. The WTBTS telling people they somehow needed to be a member in order to get access to these files. The truth seems to be more interesting. Take a look through the yearbooks and find out what nations were giving the WTBTS a particularly hard time around 1991. Then think, as a recognized UN entity, what would the society REALLY be getting out of it?)
directory do you mean whose members of NGO now
That IS what I am referring to. The society did not withdraw until a website ran a front-page article about their hyprocrasy in being members. Days later, they submitted their withdrawal (hand in the cookie jar, so to speak). HOWEVER, the UN had already sent to the printers the 2001/2002 NGO directory - so the WTBTS is still listed in the 'current' one. (This is all IIRC)
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57
Are any of you actually witnesses here?
by A_Revelation in.
how can all of you say that you are disgusted etc when you dont know any thing about the organisation?.
im sure you didnt really worry before but now you are all acting upset etc.. i stress to say that it is accusations not fact.. i am 16 and found the program annoying in the fact that we were portrayed completely wrong.. the bbc could say what they liked.. i think that people should be more sincere and less assuming.. thanks, mark
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Xander
Ah, some people beat me to the 607 thing - cool.
I did have some other comments on your reply, though:
it's been taken out because when you start a study you go through a brochure "Blood how can it save you" or some such title.
This might be a change, so I'd like you to verify, if possible. Last I understood, two publications were studied before baptism - the 'Knowledge' book and a brochure that was out at the time - I don't remember the name, but it had a picture of several people of different nationalities on the cover and was regarding a 'god of love' or somesuch - maybe "Does God Really Care About Us?". The 'blood' brochure was definately something we were told NOT to study with the householders - indeed, it was implied we should skirt the question until they were baptised.
As for the blood card, they don't renew every year anymore because it doesn't go out of date so to speak, just cause it's last years model!
Well, that is SIGNIFICANTLY different from past teachings.
From a 1998 KM regarding the 'blood card' part (from the 1999 Watchtower CD):
20 min: Prepare Now to Uphold Gods Law on Blood. Qualified elder discusses importance of filling out both the Advance Medical Directive/Release card and the Societys health-care power of attorney form. Inspired direction at Psalm 19:7 shows that Acts 15:28, 29 is an expression of Gods perfect law on blood. Loyal worshipers strive to uphold that law. These documents make known your determination to do so and speak for you when you are unable to speak for yourself. (Compare Proverbs 22:3.) A new card provides a current declaration of your refusal to take blood. Following this meeting, baptized Witnesses who desire to have a new card will be given one, and those with unbaptized minor children will receive an Identity Card for each child. These cards are not to be filled out tonight. They should be filled out carefully at home but NOT signed. Signing, witnessing, and dating of all cards will be done after the next Congregation Book Study, under the supervision of the book study conductor. This will ensure that all assigned to his group who want to execute this medical directive have the needed assistance. Those signing as witnesses should actually see the cardholder sign the document. Anyone missing at that time and who desires to fill out and sign a card will be assisted by conductors/elders at the next Service Meeting until all baptized publishers have their cards properly completed. (Review letter of October 15, 1991.) By adapting language from this card to their own circumstances and convictions, unbaptized publishers may write out their own directive to use for themselves and their children. The durable power of attorney form on the other hand is a more comprehensive document and, since it is based on state statutory law, is respected by medical and legal personnel. (Refer as needed to the January 1997 sheet entitled "Information About the Societys Health-Care Durable Power of Attorney Forms" and the Question Box in the December 1995 OurKingdomMinistry.) For the best legal protection, it is recommended that both documents be filled out. On the front of the Advance Medical Directive/Release card write, preferably in your own hand: "I have also executed a health-care power of attorney."
And, in 1997, the language was even stronger:
20 min: Time to Renew the Advance Medical Directive/Release Card. Qualified elder discusses importance of filling out card completely and carrying it at all times. This document speaks for you if you are unable to speak for yourself in an emergency. (Compare Proverbs 22:3.) A new card needs to be filled out every year to give a current declaration on refusal of blood, since some doctors and others have claimed that documents older than one year may not reflect a persons current conviction. After the meeting, all baptized publishers will be given the Advance Medical Directive/Release card, and those with unbaptized minor children will receive an Identity Card for each child. Explain that these cards are not to be filled out tonight. They should be filled out carefully at home but NOT signed. Signing, witnessing, and dating of all cards will be done following the next Congregation Book Study, under the supervision of the book study conductor. He will check to see that all assigned to his group received a card and have needed assistance. Those signing as witnesses should actually see the cardholder sign the document. Anyone missing at that time will be assisted by conductors/elders at the next Service Meeting until all baptized publishers have their cards properly filled out and signed. (Review letter of October 15, 1991.) By adapting language from this card to their own circumstances and convictions, unbaptized publishers may write out their own directive to use for themselves and their children. Refer to Question Box of the December 1995 OurKingdomMinistry. Explain that the health-care power of attorney (proxy) form provided by the Society is a legal document recognized by medical and legal personnel and that when it is properly filled out, it offers additional legal assurance that ones wishes will be respected on blood and other health-care and end-of-life decisions. Baptized publishers may obtain a copy of this document from the secretary. (Unlike the Advance Medical Directive/Release card, which is renewed annually, the health-care power of attorney (proxy) form needs to be replaced only when you elect to make a change in it.) Exercising insight in caring for these vital details will merit good from Jehovah.Prov. 16:20.
Edited by - Xander on 15 July 2002 20:41:15
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Evolution/Creation Talk
by truthseeker1 inthis last sunday we had the evolution/creation talk.
it was hard to sit there and take that load of crap.
its funny because the night before i looked up a lot of evolution info at different schools on the web so the arguments were fresh in my mind.
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Xander
Ferret:
Two questions, then.
Why did god create parasites and viruses?
How do you explain that viruses and bacteria both DO INDEED EVOLVE and CAN BE OBSERVED DOING SO? I mean, there is no dispute that evolution DOES happen.